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[Music]

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so

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[Music]

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welcome back to liminal frames

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this is episode four of the show and we

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are super glad to have you listening

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with us we hope that you

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have a coffee or tea or beverage of your

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choice and

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are here to enjoy this conversation

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we don't take for granted that uh you

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are listening to us and and

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participating with us in this journey

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i'm your host nathan and i'm joined by

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my co-host exo academian xo

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how you doing

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i'm doing quite well thank you and um

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looking forward to to digging into a

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topic that's bigger than we can possibly

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handle in 90 minutes but we'll give it a

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shot

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i think we're going to solve it i'm

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pretty confident we'll just uh crack

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this

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total synthesis

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many have tried uh all have failed um

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yes so the topic for today's show is on

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disclosure and what that means so

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no small topic at all uh we will do our

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best to cover as much as we can

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in this hour and a half

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um but like all our shows we're hoping

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that this sparks uh additional

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conversation we're hoping that uh this

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gets you thinking and get gets you to

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want to participate i can say for me

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personally one of the things i enjoy the

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most about our show and our audience is

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reading the comments that people leave

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on youtube about the show or seeing what

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people say about it on twitter

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we read every single one of those things

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we think about them and and we very much

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want to incorporate

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you know audience questions and thoughts

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into the shows that we're doing

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so looking forward to hearing what

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so exo

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disclosure capital d disclosure

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let's unpack this a little bit uh where

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do we even start with this what's a good

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place to begin if we were to kick this

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off

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well uh just what you said there made me

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think that it's it's helpful to

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distinguish capital d disclosure from

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small d disclosure

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um

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you know when we say capital d i think

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we mean

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like world changing you know like

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you know bc and ad kind of thing you

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know it's like after disclosure um

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in fact i think richard dolan did a book

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playing on that um the notion that

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the world will be changed forever our

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civilization will never be the same

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once this is acknowledged publicly

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that we are not alone

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there we are being visited by others and

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perhaps even more so they've been

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interacting with us perhaps even shaping

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our civilization

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what have you um

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it's a huge topic

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i think i think it's important to get

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into because

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many people have different assumptions

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about it you know some people are

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convinced that the government knows a

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lot

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and um maybe even our you know only

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holding back because they want to retain

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their power over society kind of like a

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marxist kind of perspective you know

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and uh so the weak people don't get to

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hear about it and they know everything

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everything from that perspective down to

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this is so complex

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and so paradigm shattering that

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even the government doesn't really know

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what's going on and what they're most

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terrified about is the public learning

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about this and then realizing they don't

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really know how to handle it or stop it

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or respond to it either so that's a huge

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spectrum and uh we'll get into where we

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think things really stand but that's an

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interesting perspective to begin on

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because again what people think

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disclosure entails really depends on the

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individual

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absolutely yeah well what he said right

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there just made me jump right to the

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fact that you know we cannot

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take ourselves out of the world in which

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we live we we're grounded in a world

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that is incredibly large that is

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highly interconnected

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there are many

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geopolitical

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forces at work in all of our lives that

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that have an influence over over how we

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live from from day to day

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and it's it's not being hyperbolic to

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say that these state actors of which we

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are apart have information and knowledge

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that we don't have

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uh this is just a fact

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and so it's not too hard for us to and

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to see why people would jump from that

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that truth which i think we can all

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agree on to these other sort of

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grander kind of conspiratorial thoughts

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about

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how much they know and and why they

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would keep it secret and as you

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mentioned this exertion of control over

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the population because a dumb population

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is just is just more docile and easy to

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uh to wrangle um you know

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that's in and of itself a very sort of

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nice and neat and tidy narrative about

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uh state power

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that i think

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we've just been we've been born into

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we've inherited that and that's that's

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kind of the landscape that we find

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ourselves so i i one of the

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reasons why i want to tackle this topic

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is really i think to try to expose

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some of these notions generally because

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examining them

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and and walking through their

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implications

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kind of takes a ah

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takes away some of their

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um

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over power you know that there there's

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this notion that um

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you know you're we're all just kind of

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led along by

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this great big you know nanny stage or

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whatever and and just as just one

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example and by holding that out and

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saying well is that really the case is

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it really the case that there's this you

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know sort of highly coordinated cabal of

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evil leaders that are you know doing xyz

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when we know that many governments are

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composed of our neighbors uh and and

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their children and you know it's it's

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much more complicated than that so

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that's one of the ways that i look at

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this as a as an opportunity for us to

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uh you know kind of lay bear some of

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these assumptions that we have about

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uh who's in control or who has

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information and really ask ourselves is

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that right is that really how it is

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are these kinds of are these assumptions

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fair to place on top of these government

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actors

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yeah good point and i think you know we

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we should probably start with um

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talking about that what do we mean by

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the government right when we say

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what does the government know first of

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all when we just like when we say the

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ufo phenomenon right you know how much i

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am on this thing about probably multiple

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actors multiple

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sources agendas etc

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well in the same way we can't treat the

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government as this monolithic term

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uh

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it's grouped by like you said our

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neighbors coming from a variety of world

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views and backgrounds and perspectives

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and biases

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but also government is full of different

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organizations um

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and

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on top of that you know a lot of it's

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there's a lot of stove typing stove

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piping that goes on this sort of siloing

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of information where one group won't

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necessarily know what another group

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knows and that's especially in the top

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secret world and that's done for

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security reasons that you are more

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likely to be able to hold on to secrets

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and not have your adversaries we're

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talking geopolitically

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get access to information when you're

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really careful about compartmentalizing

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it

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complex as the ufo phenomenon and hide

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strangeness and paranormality

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something as complex as that it gets

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very difficult to make sense of it when

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you've got these little silos of

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information that have little bits of the

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data but not all of it

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um and on top of that you just get you

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know

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dmv and try to get anything done in a

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timely manner

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we sometimes forget that that's the

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government too when we say the

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government dmv is the government right

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so

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a lot of it is uh

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some people that are not paid terribly

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well that are overworked that feel under

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appreciated uh and on top of that they

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exist in these silos uh you know and

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and on top of that you know another

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challenge is we hear about

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some of the the secrets uh have been

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moved into the private sector right and

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so when we say what does the government

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know sometimes what we're really saying

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is what did the government know at some

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point and then pass it off to the

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private sector because

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as we've learned those of us who've

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looked into this

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some of the people in the private sector

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researchers there have higher security

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clearances than the people supposedly in

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governmental positions

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so perhaps the secret keepers are in

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those places and that's why i say what

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do we mean by the government because

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some of the the really deep secrets and

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the highest degree of knowledge might be

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in those private corporations uh even

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hal put off in his his recent discussion

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with eric weinstein uh talked about that

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you know that that yes there are even

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perhaps scientific breakthroughs that

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exist only in private corporations which

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should make our blood boil

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seems like capitalism run amok

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but that may very well be the case for a

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lot of these

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matters yeah definitely and i

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you know i also want to look at this

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from the standpoint of

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you know sort of responsibilities um and

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just have a mature conversation about

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that perspective as well so

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you know if you if you're a parent and

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you know if you have children uh if

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you've ever worked with children in any

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way you know you recognize that

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being the adult in that relationship you

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know you have some sort of default

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responsibilities

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uh to ensure that those children

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you know don't hurt themselves that they

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you know don't harm each other

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and

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you know as much as we don't like to use

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this as an example as a metaphor for the

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state

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it's just a fact that

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we have organized ourselves in this way

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we have uh we have moved beyond uh sort

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of our our small tribal

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collective

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uh situation and we've aggregated into

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these much larger

285
00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:35,760
units that they themselves have their

286
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:38,160
own sort of structures and systems and

287
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:41,600
and desires if you will uh and and uh

288
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:44,240
you know self-perpetuating systems

289
00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:46,640
uh that these things have a

290
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:49,040
responsibility even though it is not

291
00:10:54,069 --> 00:10:51,839
situated in a singular kind of agency

292
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:54,079
like like i have a responsibility over

293
00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:56,399
my children but these institutions have

294
00:11:01,910 --> 00:10:59,680
a responsibility to care for

295
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,920
the citizenry of which they are in

296
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,600
charge and that is just a fact whether

297
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:05,360
we like it or not that's the that's the

298
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:07,120
world in which we live

299
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:08,560
and i think

300
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:11,279
one of the alluring things about

301
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:13,200
this push for disclosure

302
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,000
is this underlying drive to dismantle

303
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:21,120
that construct itself you know to say i

304
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,160
am no longer going to be uh you know

305
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:26,480
sort of kept in the dark we are going to

306
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,440
flatten

307
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,360
the pyramid we are going to give

308
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,200
everyone the information all will be

309
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:33,600
transparent all will be known and i will

310
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:36,560
not be treated like a child any longer

311
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,440
and i think while that feels uh very

312
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:41,440
good and i think you know as a thinking

313
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,959
adult it's like yes i should be

314
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:45,279
justified in wanting that at the same

315
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,160
time i think we have to be very honest

316
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:50,399
with ourselves that in order to live in

317
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:53,680
a world that is not all on the same page

318
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,440
uh that there are you know just

319
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:57,200
different distinct societies with

320
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:58,160
different

321
00:12:02,389 --> 00:11:59,200
aims

322
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,399
uh we we rely on our governments to act

323
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,399
in our interests do those do those

324
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:06,480
actions always align with our interests

325
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:09,680
no absolutely not but we do rely on them

326
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,079
to act in our interests for the most

327
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:14,399
part so that our way of living and

328
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:17,200
society continues and that plays a role

329
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:20,079
in this conversation and it has to

330
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:21,920
i totally agree and i think you know we

331
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:23,839
can get into in a little bit

332
00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:26,639
what we actually think they know they

333
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:29,040
but i agree with you that it is it is a

334
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,000
complex matter because um

335
00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:34,320
not only do they have this sense of

336
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,000
responsibility

337
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,959
but we have kind of uh laid that on to

338
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:41,040
them as well you know like we might not

339
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:42,720
be conscious of that all the time not

340
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:46,399
cognizant of it but really we're like we

341
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:49,120
want progress we want truth

342
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:52,000
but don't take away my two cars don't

343
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:53,920
take away my four bedroom house don't

344
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,480
take away my job don't change what's

345
00:13:00,150 --> 00:12:58,320
going to be available in the supermarket

346
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,160
you know like we want this smooth

347
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:02,399
functioning capitalist system that's

348
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,720
based on you know

349
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:06,560
oil to a large degree still you know

350
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:07,760
that kind of thing

351
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,639
um a petroleum economy we on the one

352
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:12,240
hand we recognize that with global

353
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,920
warming and whatnot there are some major

354
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:15,600
concerns and we need

355
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,560
you know

356
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:18,720
a really robust response

357
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,600
um

358
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:21,120
that that movie that came out recently

359
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,639
don't look up kind of talks about that

360
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:23,839
just how

361
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:25,200
uh

362
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,760
both society and our leaders are kind of

363
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:29,760
you know implicit uh you know are

364
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:32,079
complicit in this um

365
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,240
inability to come up with solutions but

366
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:36,000
we are also part of the problem because

367
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,320
we are implicitly saying

368
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:39,680
give us truth

369
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:41,920
but not too much truth not so much that

370
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:43,600
it undermines

371
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,519
the structure and the stability of our

372
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:47,279
system and yet some of what we're

373
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:48,800
talking about here

374
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,320
is completely destabilizing forget about

375
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:53,920
uh you know

376
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:56,079
religions and spiritual takes on this

377
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:56,880
and

378
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,680
from that perspective just from a

379
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:03,360
geopolitical

380
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,040
economic perspective um a lot of our

381
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,279
infrastructure will be undermined by

382
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,199
this depending on what what the truth is

383
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:13,199
right and we can get into that but

384
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,880
i yeah i think it's a good point to

385
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,040
start here by saying that this is more

386
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,720
complex than some people give it credit

387
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:20,079
for

388
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:21,440
and that

389
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,800
it's worth it's worth at least asking

390
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:27,279
what kind of secrets would you think you

391
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:30,240
would agree would be justifiable to keep

392
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:32,480
secret in other words are there any

393
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:34,720
things that if they came out

394
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:37,120
and some people really do know some

395
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:38,320
really

396
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:40,959
deeply destabilizing

397
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,519
aspects about this matter not just in

398
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:45,360
terms of

399
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,160
aliens but i mean reality itself being

400
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:50,000
not what we have been taught it is right

401
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,800
and that

402
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:52,800
if that's what this is pointing towards

403
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:54,800
in other words are there any kind of

404
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:57,279
implications or even the fact that you

405
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:59,600
know maybe if the public knows about it

406
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,000
that also is more likely to create a

407
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,920
negative scenario right a negative

408
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,240
outcome in other words is it sometimes

409
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:08,320
justifiable to hold back truth because

410
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:10,079
of what the implication will be if you

411
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,600
let it out

412
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:13,519
and the last thing i'll say before toss

413
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:14,639
it back to you

414
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:18,000
is that like you say the world is a

415
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,440
a place with many different kinds of

416
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,600
people not everyone's working the same

417
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:23,519
developmental level not every nation

418
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,639
state is working at the same

419
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:26,720
developmental level you want to be

420
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:30,480
careful to not let a warlord

421
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:33,040
get his hands on an anti-grav machine

422
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,160
you know or

423
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:36,880
or energy that could be turned into a

424
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:39,199
device that could you know destroy the

425
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,519
fabric of reality or something like that

426
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:43,519
in other words again it is worth

427
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:46,800
thinking what kinds of truths would you

428
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,360
consider justifiable to keep secret it's

429
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:50,959
we have to ask that if we're going to

430
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,839
talk about disclosure

431
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,000
and what's the what's the spectrum here

432
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:58,320
of of um

433
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,720
of revelation uh and i like that word

434
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:01,839
and i want to come back to that word

435
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:02,720
again

436
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,399
later on but

437
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,079
you know when i think about this topic i

438
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,079
think about

439
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,079
kind of very simple

440
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:12,880
elements of disclosure and very complex

441
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:14,000
elements

442
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,959
uh on the simple end it's just hey we're

443
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:18,240
not alone

444
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:19,279
you know

445
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:21,040
we're essentially there

446
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,639
already

447
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:24,959
i think most of our scientific community

448
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:27,199
the consensus is yeah we're probably not

449
00:16:31,749 --> 00:16:29,519
alone in the universe there's some other

450
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:31,759
kind of life out there

451
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:33,759
the numbers are just

452
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:35,680
too high

453
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,480
so

454
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:38,639
i would say i would posit that that that

455
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:39,920
side of the spectrum we're actually

456
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:41,839
already there we're actually may you

457
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:44,320
know but what we aren't perhaps is the

458
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:46,240
the very next level above that which

459
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:47,279
would be

460
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,639
we're not alone and they're already here

461
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:52,720
you know they're whatever they are they

462
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,440
have visited here or they're here now

463
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:58,320
uh you know they're not as far away in

464
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,560
the vast universe as we once thought so

465
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:02,160
that would be kind of

466
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:03,600
what i would think would be the very

467
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:07,360
next step in in a slow roll uh on this

468
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,039
spectrum and then you have the complex

469
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,160
and disclosure that gets into really all

470
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,640
of the details uh and and you know we've

471
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:16,240
talked about this a lot

472
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:19,360
uh if you are

473
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:21,039
trying to uh

474
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:22,319
teach or

475
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:25,039
or or convey information that is going

476
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,000
to

477
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,280
impact the mental space of every living

478
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,520
person on the planet

479
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,200
you have to do that in a win a

480
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:35,360
responsible way you can't necessarily

481
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,840
just go immediately to

482
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:40,160
the litany of complex things that that

483
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,520
we might know

484
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,360
and say okay hey uh

485
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,520
here here you go here's the

486
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,679
you know the the giant novel that

487
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:50,240
explains everything that we know uh good

488
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:53,200
luck processing that uh you know get

489
00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:54,559
back to us with questions you know it

490
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:56,000
just it's not going

491
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:58,000
to think that it could roll out like

492
00:18:01,590 --> 00:17:58,799
that

493
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,600
to me would be incredibly dangerous

494
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:03,200
although it would be very you know

495
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:04,960
scintillating oh great you know we get

496
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:07,840
all these great answers but uh what then

497
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,240
and uh and and who all can handle it

498
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:12,480
even those who i think have

499
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:15,600
told themselves that they are ready for

500
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,960
that level of detail probably aren't

501
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:21,039
uh because it's very likely and that

502
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:22,720
you've done a great job pointing this

503
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:24,720
out on point of convergence it's very

504
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,320
likely stranger

505
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:29,200
and more diverse than than we can assume

506
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:30,480
or imagine

507
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,799
um and so i think that if i were to kind

508
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:34,000
of put it

509
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:35,760
on on that spectrum and put up some

510
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:37,600
guardrails there that's sort of how i

511
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,960
think about this

512
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,720
uh i don't know if you if you think

513
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,720
about that the same way and is there is

514
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:45,200
there a kind of um

515
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:46,480
necessity

516
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,039
to building off of these things

517
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,000
sequentially or or do you think there is

518
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,640
a merit to kind of jumping headfirst

519
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:56,559
into the deep end

520
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,720
well i think a big part of the challenge

521
00:19:02,710 --> 00:18:59,600
is

522
00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:02,720
the second option presumes that there's

523
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:04,000
consensus

524
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,600
amongst the secret keepers about what

525
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:07,120
those secrets are

526
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:08,320
um

527
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:13,520
what is most terrifying to any

528
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,919
government any group in power

529
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:17,760
is to have to acknowledge

530
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,480
something that is more sophisticated

531
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:22,720
um so much so that you you don't even

532
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:24,080
understand how it's doing some of the

533
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,440
things it's doing

534
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:26,720
you don't even understand fully what

535
00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:28,880
those things are you sort of see as an

536
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,799
after effect ways that our reality has

537
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:32,240
changed

538
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,000
but it's terrifying to you to have to

539
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,039
admit that and have no solutions

540
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:39,200
you know um

541
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:41,440
it's sort of implicit in

542
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:43,600
in the american constitution that our

543
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:45,039
government is supposed to protect us

544
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:48,000
from you know from all threats uh you

545
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:51,600
know domestic and foreign um and

546
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:54,320
this this is on a whole new level and

547
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,280
um

548
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,440
to a government uh you know what would

549
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,840
be the point in

550
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,200
admitting this

551
00:20:05,909 --> 00:20:03,840
and at the same time not having any

552
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:05,919
uh ability to respond to it in a way

553
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:08,799
that can control the outcome that's you

554
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:11,840
know so there's getting back to the the

555
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:13,440
responsibility piece you don't want to

556
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,960
terrify people you don't want to you

557
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:16,480
don't want to um

558
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:19,600
terrorize your own populace by admitting

559
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,720
something

560
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:22,880
uh is in our midst that you have no

561
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:26,240
control over you can't you know

562
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:27,600
make them take their shoes off at the

563
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:30,320
border and you know and search them it

564
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,919
doesn't work that way they they can

565
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,520
materialize in your room in the middle

566
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:35,039
of the night right

567
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:36,480
think about that for a second think

568
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:38,799
about how we had to wrestle with in a

569
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:41,360
post-9 11 world how do we secure our

570
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,480
borders

571
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,559
and then you then you go and you admit

572
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:46,400
to the populist that there's these other

573
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,880
beings that can materialize in your room

574
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,559
in the middle of the night they can take

575
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,480
you to other realms

576
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:55,440
and the government has no ability to

577
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:58,720
predict it to stop it to respond to it

578
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,600
at all i mean to many people that would

579
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:03,520
produce terror it would be a very step

580
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,799
destabilizing uh truth to come out so

581
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:08,559
i think it's a legitimate

582
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:10,480
a legitimate concern

583
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:12,320
that if you did know that

584
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,600
but that you were in the process of

585
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:16,000
hoping you could learn more so that you

586
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:19,039
could come up with some sort of response

587
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,960
that you would hold off on letting that

588
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:22,720
information out because that information

589
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,640
would be destabilizing it would be very

590
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,880
concerning to people it certainly you

591
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:28,080
know

592
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:30,159
when you think about the small details

593
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,919
that can crash the markets you know

594
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:33,440
because it's driven by

595
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,880
fear and greed right is the famous

596
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,840
saying

597
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,679
so imagine

598
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:40,159
you know how the new york stock exchange

599
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,400
opens on a monday following a weekend

600
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:45,039
disclosure that you know

601
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:47,360
non-humans sophisticated intelligences

602
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:51,120
here and taking people and you know all

603
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,960
all the pieces we know that are part of

604
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:54,240
this narrative

605
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,000
and imagine how that doesn't completely

606
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:58,159
destabilize the economy and and

607
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:59,760
everything else and so

608
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:01,919
again it's it's a complex matter and you

609
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:04,880
you for me anyway i can certainly

610
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:07,120
on the one hand this the cynic in me

611
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,559
says

612
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:09,840
the government doesn't want to admit

613
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:11,600
they have no control

614
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,240
because they want to maintain control

615
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:17,200
on the other hand like you said we do

616
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:18,799
pass off to them

617
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:21,200
that role so that we can have a stable

618
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,039
economy and we can have the lives we

619
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:25,200
want and we watch the super bowl on a

620
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,640
sunday

621
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:28,240
so what happens

622
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:31,919
to our uh analysis of that when suddenly

623
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,799
the truth the disclosure capital d

624
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:37,440
means the completely unraveling of of

625
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:40,720
society as we know it yeah and i would

626
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:43,120
quite frankly be upset if they didn't

627
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,559
take the time

628
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,400
to uh

629
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:48,880
to reflect on how best to

630
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,440
reveal this information if they had the

631
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,280
ability to do so

632
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:55,679
you know so like it would be a a

633
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:57,840
complete derelict election of their duty

634
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,480
to their citizens into the world to just

635
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,480
say oh hey uh we just learned this

636
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:04,799
yesterday um

637
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:06,799
we haven't really thought much about it

638
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:09,440
you know here you go um i just don't

639
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:10,320
think

640
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,480
that that would do anyone any favors at

641
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:14,960
all um it's the same thing i keep coming

642
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:16,480
back to this parenting metaphor because

643
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:18,080
i am a parent and i think it's just easy

644
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,440
to relate to but

645
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:21,280
you know any anything that impacts the

646
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,960
family

647
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,880
you know as a collective

648
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:26,799
you know the parents generally are going

649
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,200
to have a conversation about how to

650
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,880
communicate

651
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:32,080
that

652
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,280
whatever it is to their children because

653
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:37,679
the children don't have an awareness yet

654
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:38,480
of

655
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,760
they don't have the life experience it's

656
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,760
not even a matter of breaking it down

657
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:45,279
for them i can break it down all day

658
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,480
long to my kids they have not lived

659
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,120
enough to have any correlates

660
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:53,520
by which to understand what i'm saying

661
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:54,640
to them

662
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:55,679
and so

663
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,520
you know i would be i would be pretty

664
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,440
upset with our government

665
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:01,840
if they got information all of a sudden

666
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:04,880
and didn't spend any amount of time

667
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,279
in in in their scientific circles in

668
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,360
their philosophical circles

669
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,520
uh you know looking at this from a lot

670
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:14,159
of different angles and saying okay

671
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:17,600
we think this is the best way to explain

672
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:20,880
what we have seen and discovered

673
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:22,720
right and then to use your analogy

674
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:24,080
imagine that

675
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:26,720
the parental unit completely disagrees

676
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:28,799
about what the nature of the issue is

677
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:30,400
right because one thing when you have

678
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:31,360
two parents who have the same

679
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,640
perspective and then they have to think

680
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:34,799
about how we're going to translate this

681
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:36,960
and kids speak so that you know we don't

682
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:38,799
tell our kids the literal truth we tell

683
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,760
them enough that they can move forward

684
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,200
based on where they're at and what they

685
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:45,120
can understand like you said

686
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,000
but there are some people again getting

687
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:49,679
back to what we discussed last time with

688
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:52,559
angels and demons and the collins elite

689
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,080
there are some groups within the

690
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,799
government that are convinced that this

691
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:58,720
is demonic activity

692
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:00,880
and that your only response to it should

693
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,159
be to not talk about it to shut it down

694
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,039
that by even talking about it uh you

695
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,200
give it more power and that's the worst

696
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:11,600
thing you can do so

697
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:13,039
again matching

698
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:14,320
that in a parental unit kind of

699
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:16,000
situation where one parent is convinced

700
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,880
that

701
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,480
sure we have to translate it but we have

702
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,480
to tell our kids something right and the

703
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:22,320
other parent says no to even let them

704
00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:25,440
know this is more damaging than to not

705
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:27,919
so that gives you a again that's just a

706
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,520
small analogy missing all sorts of

707
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:31,919
nuance but in that alone you realize how

708
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,679
complex this becomes

709
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:35,520
absolutely

710
00:25:39,909 --> 00:25:38,080
yeah it's uh you know i and and i

711
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:39,919
resonate with every perspective on this

712
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:42,559
i resonate with people that that i get

713
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:44,640
really upset about this that uh oh we

714
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:46,960
know the government knows something or

715
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,440
knew something decades ago and uh they

716
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:51,200
were about to say something about it and

717
00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:53,279
then they didn't and i'm just i'm fired

718
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,799
up about this and i think we should hold

719
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:56,080
them accountable we should put them on

720
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:57,679
trial even

721
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,919
and uh and get some justice for that and

722
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,200
and i resonate from the other

723
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:03,600
perspective that you know maybe they did

724
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:05,360
do the right thing maybe if we had been

725
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:06,640
in their shoes

726
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:08,960
and we had seen what they'd seen uh

727
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:11,200
whatever it is that we may have made

728
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:13,279
pretty similar decisions

729
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,960
you know it's all hindsight's always 20

730
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:16,720
easy to kind of second guess

731
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,880
things that have happened in the past

732
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:20,559
but it could very well be

733
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,799
that that the right choices were made

734
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,559
all along

735
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:26,159
i can tell you one thing for sure no

736
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:27,279
matter what

737
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:28,799
is revealed

738
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:30,559
and disclosed because we've seen this

739
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:33,120
already no matter what is shared there

740
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,760
will be dispute about it

741
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:37,679
there will be questions there will be

742
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:39,360
the cynics and and those who are

743
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:40,720
optimistic

744
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:42,400
and and then we'll and we'll be fighting

745
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,880
over it as well uh so i think that's

746
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,799
inevitable

747
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:48,640
totally true i mean

748
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:50,000
and before we even get there you know

749
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:51,039
it's just thinking about what you just

750
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:52,559
said and

751
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,320
i think it's a great point that we we

752
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,240
have to remember

753
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:58,559
when we think back over the you know 70

754
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:01,120
to 80 years of lies right

755
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:03,679
we have to frame that again based on

756
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,240
what we do in the show a lot within the

757
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,720
you know sociological geopolitical

758
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:09,919
context

759
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,159
of the 20th century so

760
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,559
you know in the midst of the cold war

761
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:16,320
right when you're you're fighting this

762
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:18,720
this massive battle for the future of

763
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,039
civilization is the way you see it right

764
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:22,960
where both side is convinced the other

765
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:25,200
is the the arch enemy and

766
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,120
um you know everything bad you can

767
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:28,960
imagine gets ascribed to them on both

768
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:30,240
sides

769
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:33,520
so supposedly the narrative is that

770
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:35,840
craft and potentially

771
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,200
occupants

772
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:39,039
you know were discovered in the midst of

773
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:40,240
this

774
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:42,000
in the midst of a cold war right in the

775
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:44,000
midst of this this epic battle of

776
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:46,080
civilizations for the future

777
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,520
you know economic structures

778
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:49,200
socio-political structure of the entire

779
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:51,600
world right both sides were trying to

780
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:54,480
take over countries annex countries to

781
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:56,320
create these huge pacts right around the

782
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,279
world

783
00:28:01,909 --> 00:27:59,279
so you you can't

784
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,919
separate disclosure from that context

785
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,320
you know that was the context and if you

786
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:06,240
really feel like

787
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,440
regardless of whether or not they're

788
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,960
right but if you're convinced that

789
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,640
you're on the good side and you're

790
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:12,799
trying to prevent this other

791
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:14,960
you know geopolitical system from taking

792
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,720
over and doing evil

793
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,159
then you may

794
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,559
say yes this is a huge revelation people

795
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:22,559
would want to know about this but now is

796
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:25,679
not the time we're fighting this war

797
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:29,200
we just don't have the bandwidth to also

798
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,039
analyze this and make sense of this so

799
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,360
it gets put on the back burner so we've

800
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,240
before talked about ironically the very

801
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:39,600
advent of the atomic age may have been

802
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:42,240
the you know

803
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:44,880
created the inception point for this

804
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,120
uh some of these intelligences to come

805
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:49,360
into our midst to come into our realm to

806
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,799
interact with us so it might have been

807
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:52,080
in the midst of

808
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:54,320
this cold war that caused some of the

809
00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:55,760
uptick in them being here and

810
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:57,279
interacting with us

811
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:58,880
but you know if you're one of those

812
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,200
secret keepers you're you're also trying

813
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:03,360
to in the midst of this win this cold

814
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,559
war of massive proportions so

815
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:08,480
we absolutely have to keep that in mind

816
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:10,399
uh you know and i and i agree with you

817
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,799
it's it's i think one thing we try to do

818
00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:14,480
on this show

819
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:16,399
is again take that multi-perspectival

820
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,159
view where we can we can see it from

821
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,039
different points of view and and try to

822
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:23,120
and we encourage people to do this to to

823
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:24,720
try to see it from someone else's point

824
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,720
of view and only when you really stand

825
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:28,240
in their shoes can you maybe see how

826
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,159
there's some validity to that

827
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:32,159
um so

828
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,320
i understand like you said that some

829
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,720
people are frustrated that the the lies

830
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,360
the changing stories about roswell we're

831
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,279
ridiculous like just on the face of it

832
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:43,760
just ridiculous no you know and the the

833
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:47,120
weather balloon and swamp gas kind of

834
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:49,120
venus you know all these

835
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,200
sort of jokes we make now because we

836
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:53,200
were we felt belittled that the

837
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:54,640
government would say oh you know you're

838
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:56,080
just mistaking

839
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,080
this object that split into three and

840
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,840
moved up and down and abducted you and

841
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:02,159
put you back and that was just actually

842
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:05,600
venus you know like something so static

843
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,279
and to to

844
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:09,279
you know mock people's intelligence that

845
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:11,520
they wouldn't be able to distinguish

846
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:13,120
the planet venus

847
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:15,919
you know from this bizarre you know

848
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,919
array of experience they they went

849
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:19,360
through

850
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:22,000
you know again that part i am totally

851
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:24,000
sympathetic to that there were

852
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:26,000
there are points along the trajectory

853
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:26,799
where

854
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:30,960
deliberate

855
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,240
beyond just cover-up there was also

856
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:36,240
deliberate programs put into place to

857
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,559
stigmatize this topic to

858
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:42,720
even do if not just financial or

859
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:45,039
professional harm to people even maybe

860
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,320
more than that you know we're talking

861
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:48,640
about even lethal force potentially

862
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,720
being used to keep this secret under

863
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,480
wraps you know there's

864
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,159
hard to pin down exactly what happened

865
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,559
but certainly there was major stigma

866
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:58,240
some people lost their lives because

867
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:59,279
they were

868
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:01,760
you know fed disinformation and it

869
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:04,159
became too much for them

870
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,360
a lot of um you know the the historical

871
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,440
narrative is difficult to justify

872
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:12,000
certainly um

873
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:13,760
so we have to in some ways i think to

874
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,399
make sense of this very big topic

875
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:18,640
you know not try to not take it in one

876
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:20,640
global you know

877
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,679
spoonful uh the roswell stuff that is

878
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:25,440
certainly frustrating that certainly was

879
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:28,080
not justified uh it was ridiculous it

880
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:29,840
was belittling to people

881
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:30,880
um

882
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,760
the it it created this sense in people's

883
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:35,360
minds that the government is the enemy

884
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:38,159
that the government are holding back

885
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,360
information that every human being has a

886
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:43,120
right to know they have no right to do

887
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:44,000
this

888
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:46,000
um i understand all of those those

889
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:47,279
concerns

890
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,320
um and then you know i think when we get

891
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:52,080
into the later 20th century and into the

892
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:53,919
21st century then it becomes a different

893
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:55,679
matter so

894
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:56,799
and like you said there's there's

895
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:57,919
different

896
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,760
responses some people want to you know

897
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:01,600
see these people hang you know they just

898
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,480
they have no uh you know patience for it

899
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,559
no grace for it other people are more

900
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,240
pragmatic and they say perhaps we should

901
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:10,080
offer amnesty

902
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,399
to the secret keepers saying you come

903
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:14,159
out you tell us what you know and i

904
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:15,679
could on a congressional level or

905
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,720
whatever

906
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:18,960
and then the public hears it after that

907
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:21,200
we're willing to grant you amnesty that

908
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:22,799
you won't be you know convicted of

909
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:25,039
crimes for these secrets

910
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:26,000
um

911
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:27,760
and then people wrestle with is that

912
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:30,880
worth it are we willing to let them off

913
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:32,799
uh if it means we finally get the truth

914
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:36,240
and that in itself is a complex question

915
00:32:39,269 --> 00:32:37,519
yes

916
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:39,279
well what uh

917
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:42,799
as we kind of switch over to speculating

918
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,799
about what might be known

919
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:47,279
you know there are

920
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:48,559
you know in the literature there's a

921
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:50,000
there's a sort of a spectrum of things

922
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:50,720
that

923
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:55,200
government may be aware of and why don't

924
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:57,120
we start we have to start somewhere why

925
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:58,799
don't we start here with the with this

926
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:01,519
notion that that we may be in possession

927
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:04,320
of material or craft

928
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,399
uh you know do you

929
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:08,080
kind of when you're when you're looking

930
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:09,440
at things in the research that you've

931
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:12,640
done have done do you feel like that

932
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:15,279
that's pretty safe ground to land on

933
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:18,240
for lack of a better phrase

934
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:19,519
do you think that's what that we at

935
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,279
least have something there

936
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:23,120
in a laboratory or something yes

937
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,000
absolutely i think that um

938
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:28,320
there is plenty of evidence to suggest

939
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:32,480
we have material that looks to be debris

940
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,480
from craft and whatnot

941
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,640
you have people like eric davis

942
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,799
who you know know as much as anyone on

943
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,039
this i talked about him on my most

944
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,440
recent podcast on point of convergence

945
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,919
um he's a straight shooter you know he

946
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:47,760
doesn't make stuff up he's sometimes a

947
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,360
controversial figure but he's always a

948
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,360
straight shooter and he's made it clear

949
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:53,760
that we we he's analyzed stuff that we

950
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,840
couldn't we don't know how to make

951
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:57,760
you know some of these materials

952
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,720
are not necessarily initially obvious to

953
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:02,399
us what they do

954
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,360
um

955
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:06,399
but they clearly look exotic they are in

956
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,159
an amalgam of materials that we don't

957
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,240
know how to put together in that way or

958
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:12,320
if we did it would be extremely

959
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:13,919
expensive you know like

960
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:15,200
and on top of that there were times

961
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:16,800
where we had no idea what it would even

962
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:17,679
do

963
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:20,240
once you did create it and yet very

964
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:23,119
interestingly sometimes after decades

965
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:25,200
we will finally have an aha moment and

966
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,520
say aha you know you could levitate

967
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,879
something if you

968
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,560
you know project the right amount of

969
00:34:33,909 --> 00:34:32,560
energy at a certain terahertz frequency

970
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:33,919
then that thing is going to float you

971
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:36,320
know stuff like that and you go wow that

972
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:38,879
that is fascinating um

973
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,200
but yes to answer your original question

974
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,919
i do think we very clearly have material

975
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:46,320
that's probably from craft

976
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:48,000
but i will say before i hand it back

977
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,440
over to you that

978
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:51,359
but what that ultimately means is a

979
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:53,440
separate question i don't want to jump

980
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:57,200
to that means their ets you know

981
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:59,119
uh coming from a different galaxy and

982
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:00,400
they've crashed their craft because they

983
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,760
had a bad day like we talked about

984
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:03,200
before

985
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,000
question of are these deliberate crashes

986
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:10,320
crashes in quotes meaning that they're

987
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:12,960
there either to be gifts to help us

988
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:15,520
discover new technology or some sort of

989
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:18,320
coded message to say hey stop detonating

990
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,320
atomic bombs

991
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,079
you know what it means is a different

992
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:24,800
question but have they recovered

993
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:27,040
material that seems to be highly

994
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:29,680
sophisticated and not something we could

995
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,920
easily or at all create yes i believe

996
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:33,760
that's true

997
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:36,480
yeah i think we see other uh pieces of

998
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:38,400
evidence that point in that direction as

999
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:39,200
well

1000
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:41,599
uh most recently i can think of

1001
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:43,680
ross coulthard's excellent book in plain

1002
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,560
sight

1003
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:46,800
uh where he talks about his

1004
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:49,599
conversations with nat kobits uh

1005
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,160
and nat mentioning that you know that we

1006
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,680
did have something that we were trying

1007
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:55,520
to reverse engineer

1008
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:56,640
uh

1009
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,240
you know pretty strongly hinting that

1010
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:00,000
that we were in possession of some sort

1011
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:03,359
of material or craft or part of a craft

1012
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:04,960
uh secret it away

1013
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:06,880
uh potentially in a in a private

1014
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:09,119
industry for example

1015
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,880
so that that's a good recent example and

1016
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,320
then i can think too we've already

1017
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:14,000
talked about roswell so that's a you

1018
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:15,520
know iconic

1019
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,320
uh

1020
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:19,119
you know story of course but um and i'll

1021
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:21,119
go i'll go it's controversial but i'll

1022
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:22,960
go with another controversial one which

1023
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:26,000
is bob lazar uh you know a very heated

1024
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,160
uh you know kind of topic there lots of

1025
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,480
different opinions on that uh i'm not

1026
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:32,480
here to say one way or the other but

1027
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,839
certainly that uh story uh

1028
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:38,240
you know has fanned the flames that we

1029
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,200
are in possession of something um

1030
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:43,760
and then there are other uh uh

1031
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:46,560
anecdotes of crashes uh uh recently

1032
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,000
jacques vallee uh in in his book uh with

1033
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:52,960
uh paula harris on trinity uh the crash

1034
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:53,839
there

1035
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:56,079
so and then i can think of the aztec

1036
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,040
crash

1037
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,000
uh in essex mexico i think it was uh so

1038
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:02,560
very well known case so there are a lot

1039
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:04,480
of uh sort of

1040
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:06,160
interesting things that we can look at

1041
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,520
in the literature that seemed to

1042
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:09,760
strongly hint that there is there is a

1043
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:12,000
there there and then i would also point

1044
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,160
to uh the passage of the

1045
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:16,880
uh of the gillibrand amendment uh from

1046
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:20,640
the ndaa and the explicit mention of

1047
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:22,480
you know retrieving

1048
00:37:25,589 --> 00:37:23,680
teams

1049
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:25,599
specifically set up to go and retrieve

1050
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:27,920
something now we can we can talk about

1051
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,320
that in the uh prosaic

1052
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:32,640
you know sort of auspices of retrieving

1053
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:35,440
a downed uh drone of some kind and

1054
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:37,599
getting our hands on that technology and

1055
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:38,960
understanding it

1056
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:41,680
maybe it's from one of our adversaries

1057
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:44,960
but it could also hint at something else

1058
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:46,720
and that's of course a lot of conjecture

1059
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:47,760
so we're going to have to kind of wait

1060
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:49,119
and see

1061
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:51,680
as this story continues to unfold

1062
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:54,240
what really may be at play there but if

1063
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:55,839
you kind of add all these things

1064
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:58,079
together uh along with many different

1065
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,720
accounts over the over the decades i

1066
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:02,240
would say there's a there's some pretty

1067
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:04,079
good evidence here to say that there is

1068
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,920
some that we have we are in possession

1069
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,160
of something uh and that the narrative

1070
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:09,839
we always hear is that we got it and we

1071
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:11,359
don't know what to do with it we kind of

1072
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:13,359
like play around with it for a while

1073
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:14,880
throw some science at it and throw our

1074
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,320
hands up in the air and come back a

1075
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,880
decade later and try again

1076
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:20,400
yeah i mean

1077
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:21,599
it's interesting when you think about

1078
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:25,119
the glibrand amendment and you know you

1079
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:27,119
it's amazing how different people will

1080
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:28,079
look at that and come away with

1081
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:29,440
different conclusions about what it

1082
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,800
means right

1083
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,480
but you could easily argue why would you

1084
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:34,160
even have that

1085
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:37,520
that aspect about crash retrieval teams

1086
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,760
if there was no there there right if we

1087
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,920
were still at the level of

1088
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:43,920
you know total conjecture about even if

1089
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,280
anything's happening if it's just

1090
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:47,520
atmospheric phenomena or whatever

1091
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:48,880
why would you

1092
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:51,920
actually you know go so far as to plan

1093
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:54,320
that kind of detail right

1094
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:56,320
and yeah some people who are

1095
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,800
skeptics will just go like you said uh

1096
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:00,640
it's just recovering drone technology

1097
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:02,000
right that's become the sort of the

1098
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:03,280
catch-all

1099
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,960
it was weather balloons in the 40s and

1100
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:06,560
now it's drones right it's it's this

1101
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:07,839
sort of like

1102
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:11,280
excuse point we we introduce um

1103
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:13,839
and yeah the bob lazar point uh you went

1104
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,160
there so i'll go there too

1105
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:18,720
it is controversial uh you get people

1106
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:20,960
who have really strong opinions on on

1107
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:23,599
both sides and everything in between

1108
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,640
um

1109
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:26,800
i think what i noticed was some people

1110
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:29,839
in general is that they they tend to

1111
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:31,839
have black or white views so they they

1112
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,800
say

1113
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,320
look there's clearly some things about

1114
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,400
bob lazar that don't add up therefore i

1115
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:38,800
reject his testimony all together

1116
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:40,480
and i don't think we can do that i don't

1117
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,680
think that any of us have a completely

1118
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:45,920
non-checkered past and

1119
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,520
we wouldn't want to be judged by

1120
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:49,839
everything we've ever said or done

1121
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:52,000
and um

1122
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,280
i i for one tend to think a lot of the

1123
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:57,760
meat of what he said has some validity

1124
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,640
to it

1125
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:00,960
and it also makes complete sense to me

1126
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:03,119
that like you mentioned

1127
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:04,560
we can bring in all the highly

1128
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:06,720
credentialed credentialed scientists at

1129
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:08,560
first but if you do that for a decade

1130
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,480
and you haven't got anywhere

1131
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:12,640
and you get some guy who like you know

1132
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:16,160
created rocket engines in his spare time

1133
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,319
you might give him a shot because

1134
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:20,640
what you have to lose right and

1135
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:21,920
so

1136
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:23,680
it makes sense to me that when they

1137
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:26,079
would try and crack this

1138
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:27,680
for years and years and not really get

1139
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:29,040
anywhere

1140
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:31,040
that they would try to think outside the

1141
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:32,720
box and bring in some other people like

1142
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:35,599
a bob lazar to make sense of it

1143
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,960
that part of course is hugely

1144
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:38,640
fascinating because that doesn't just

1145
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:39,839
mean

1146
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:46,160
have either recovered craft that are

1147
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,240
still mostly operational

1148
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:50,800
or we've known at least enough to try to

1149
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:54,079
recreate these vehicles you know

1150
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:54,960
fully

1151
00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:55,760
um

1152
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,920
and you know i think bob lazar's

1153
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,280
testimony was that there was there's

1154
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:00,800
several different models right that they

1155
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:03,440
sort of had that he that he viewed

1156
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:05,119
um

1157
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:08,319
yeah it's it's it's uh tricky to figure

1158
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,920
out what's exactly going on but i think

1159
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:11,760
there is a there there regardless of

1160
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,800
exactly what the specifics are um i

1161
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,560
think that

1162
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,480
even when you look at stealth technology

1163
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:20,160
some people will look at it and say ah

1164
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:21,680
there's nothing really special there

1165
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,359
that's something we would have

1166
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,880
you know prosaically come across

1167
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:26,079
eventually other people who are

1168
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,720
convinced that the stealth technology

1169
00:41:32,309 --> 00:41:30,720
came directly out of discoveries we made

1170
00:41:34,309 --> 00:41:32,319
from retrieved vehicles and retrieved

1171
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:34,319
materials

1172
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:35,839
i've heard arguments on both sides of

1173
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:37,280
the equation

1174
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:39,920
but i am pretty convinced that we we not

1175
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,520
only have debris but we probably have

1176
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,040
perhaps even

1177
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:47,119
mostly intact craft or enough that we

1178
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,800
could actually try to figure out how the

1179
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:51,359
technology works

1180
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,880
well and then that then gets me to the

1181
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,040
next item so what do we think about and

1182
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,119
you hinted at earlier about the notion

1183
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:59,359
of occupants

1184
00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:01,280
in these craft

1185
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:02,400
there's been

1186
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:03,200
some

1187
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:06,800
mention of this i can think of um

1188
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:08,640
the interview i believe it was with kurt

1189
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:10,880
jaimongall and luella's hondo where

1190
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:13,200
elizondo hinted at uh you know kind of

1191
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:16,319
biological material

1192
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:18,160
in a very vague

1193
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,839
broad term there

1194
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:21,119
could mean a whole lot of different

1195
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:23,440
things

1196
00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:26,079
but there are other many other stories

1197
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:28,000
you know roswell great another great

1198
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,359
example that

1199
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,200
uh i forget that there were you know a

1200
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:33,119
couple of the two or three bodies and

1201
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:34,960
maybe one that was still alive and i've

1202
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:37,760
heard that that story uh secreted away

1203
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,520
to wright patterson or something you

1204
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:41,280
know so there's there's a lot of talk

1205
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:44,400
about this uh you know about some kind

1206
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:47,520
of uh humanoid uh entities

1207
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:50,800
uh you know i wonder to what degree

1208
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:52,480
you know you think that holds the same

1209
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:54,079
amount of uh

1210
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,280
of of water as as the craft uh

1211
00:43:01,589 --> 00:42:59,040
item

1212
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:01,599
yeah that one is feels uh a bit more

1213
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:05,520
speculative um i'm less sure of that but

1214
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:07,599
i think there's

1215
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,800
there's enough smoke that there's

1216
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:10,319
probably fire there

1217
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:12,170
at some point um

1218
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:13,680
[Music]

1219
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,200
again whether or not those were uh

1220
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:19,599
you know a kind of advanced ai you know

1221
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,960
there's even been

1222
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,560
discussions i think even in the trinity

1223
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,240
book that you mentioned

1224
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,319
with harrison valet where you know

1225
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:28,560
there's a discussion of

1226
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:30,880
or at least it's been postulated before

1227
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,839
that if these are actually

1228
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:35,599
either gifts

1229
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,599
meaning you know deliberate crashes to

1230
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:39,359
try to advance our technology which you

1231
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:40,720
could even argue that's us from the

1232
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:42,400
future doing that and try to change the

1233
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,839
timeline in a way that wouldn't

1234
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:47,599
outright reveal that it's technology

1235
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,480
from your own future

1236
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:52,160
but you know the the argument has been

1237
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:54,480
made that maybe they just used

1238
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:56,079
sophisticated

1239
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:58,240
semi-organic a.i

1240
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,200
um

1241
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,040
because they wouldn't want to be so

1242
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:03,839
cruel as to go and you know

1243
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:05,040
uh

1244
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:07,680
kamikaze the these these guys into the

1245
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:09,839
into the desert and kill them but rather

1246
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:11,680
we want to again if the if it's about

1247
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,520
creating a narrative that this is a

1248
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:14,800
spaceship

1249
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,760
with

1250
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:17,760
aliens who flew across

1251
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:20,240
the vast stretches of space to get here

1252
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,359
then you may

1253
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:23,040
you know

1254
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:24,640
bring bodies into it as well right so

1255
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:25,599
again

1256
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:27,680
there's the details

1257
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,640
and there's then there's the

1258
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:30,319
interpretation of the details right so

1259
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:31,119
again

1260
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,880
what i found fascinating when i

1261
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:36,720
researched that was that

1262
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:38,720
even though they never actually got

1263
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:42,000
from my understanding firsthand uh

1264
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,440
they never got their hands on the

1265
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,280
material itself or they never you know

1266
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,599
saw the bodies whatever they still came

1267
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:49,680
to some very strong conclusions about

1268
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,160
what roswell was and they were convinced

1269
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:54,319
yes material was recovered

1270
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:56,240
but it was the product of demonic

1271
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:57,599
alchemy right

1272
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,640
that

1273
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:01,440
satan and his minions can actually

1274
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:04,480
manifest 3d objects that we can pick up

1275
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,760
and hold and go wow this was like

1276
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,760
technology

1277
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:09,200
and on top of that they actually

1278
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:11,440
believed that they were there were

1279
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,000
biological entities what looked like

1280
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:15,920
biological entities that were recovered

1281
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:18,000
but they also believe that that too was

1282
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,119
a kind of

1283
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,160
frankenstein kind of alchemy that these

1284
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,400
things that look like biological bodies

1285
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:26,560
were all part of the ruse

1286
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:28,720
to make you believe that narrative about

1287
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,640
the eth um so again

1288
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:34,160
you know and like you said elizondo has

1289
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,319
talked about this but he's also been

1290
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:38,640
very hesitant to

1291
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,280
put forward the eth he he brings in he's

1292
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:42,880
very quick to say

1293
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,520
maybe there's you know humanities you

1294
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,000
know like maybe it's more than just one

1295
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:51,200
or maybe there's other species that have

1296
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:52,960
you know been alongside us all along we

1297
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:54,400
just haven't perceived them for whatever

1298
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:55,359
reason

1299
00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:59,680
um so he seems very very eager to to

1300
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:01,599
to postulate those notions to sort of

1301
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,040
get that circulating in the ufology um

1302
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:08,240
so yes i think that

1303
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:09,760
this was a very long answer to a

1304
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,160
question um but yes i think there's been

1305
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,480
biological material recovered then the

1306
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,400
question becomes what does that material

1307
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:18,960
actually represent

1308
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,160
yeah it's definitely the one that i

1309
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:22,800
think i mean all of these to me get you

1310
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:25,920
very you know get me very curious but

1311
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:28,560
you know certainly a lot of questions uh

1312
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:31,920
follow from this idea that we may have

1313
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:35,200
uh entities uh you know either

1314
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:38,160
alive or or dead uh that we can interact

1315
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:39,440
with or study

1316
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:42,000
uh and what those uh sort of what that

1317
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:44,079
revelation may mean for us

1318
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,150
i wonder too

1319
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:49,839
you know there's so many there's so many

1320
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:51,680
topics we can we can touch on but

1321
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:53,760
another one that kind of came to mind as

1322
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:56,000
far as like what

1323
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:58,160
the government may know we know that

1324
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:01,200
they have there has been research done

1325
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:03,920
uh with uh the stanford

1326
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:06,240
uh research institute work that hal put

1327
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:07,359
off has done

1328
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:10,240
into psy abilities you know remote

1329
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:11,440
viewing

1330
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:12,240
uh

1331
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:17,440
geller and and ingo swan and a bunch of

1332
00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:19,280
others uh

1333
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:22,559
joe mcmonagle you know into this

1334
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:23,760
notion that

1335
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:26,160
human beings themselves

1336
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:27,119
have this

1337
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:29,119
capability of

1338
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:31,440
you know telekinesis or telepathy all of

1339
00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:32,559
the above

1340
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:35,839
and and many have speculated that that

1341
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:39,119
that line of research inquiry is is in

1342
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:41,119
and of itself related to this entire

1343
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:42,160
topic

1344
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,839
and uh and we've touched on this a

1345
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:46,319
little bit before but you know how do

1346
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:47,839
you see

1347
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:50,960
that component as it ties into this

1348
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:56,950
yeah i mean it definitely

1349
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,160
is part of it um

1350
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:02,880
you know as i've i've mentioned recently

1351
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,200
i'm currently working on a book that

1352
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:06,960
is going to try to tie all this together

1353
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:08,319
to try to

1354
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,000
conceive of a

1355
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,640
metaphysical conception of reality that

1356
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:14,319
would give birth to all of these

1357
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,280
different

1358
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,680
phenomena we've we've observed including

1359
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:18,720
psy

1360
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:20,960
phenomena amongst human beings not to

1361
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:23,119
mention from these others

1362
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:24,000
it's

1363
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:25,760
for sure connected

1364
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:26,559
um

1365
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:28,640
my personal contention is still that

1366
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,920
there's different

1367
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:31,440
sources different groups different

1368
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:32,800
agendas here

1369
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:34,720
um i think that's part of the the huge

1370
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,640
complexity of disclosure is that it's

1371
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:38,079
not

1372
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,559
one aha moment it's that the

1373
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:42,559
it's it's a

1374
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:44,800
there's numerous uh bullet points

1375
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:46,559
on the disclosure

1376
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,680
list so um

1377
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,760
i i need to be careful here to constrain

1378
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:54,160
what i what i want to say but

1379
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:55,359
um

1380
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:57,359
yes i think that

1381
00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,599
again to cynics they will dismiss that

1382
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,680
right away and say

1383
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:03,839
come on psy really that's that's going

1384
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,520
to be your argument that shows you how

1385
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:07,599
weak your data is

1386
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:09,359
and yet

1387
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:11,920
i've seen

1388
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,920
over 100 years of parapsychological

1389
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,440
research that makes it very very clear

1390
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:17,680
that psy is real it's it's not a

1391
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:20,160
question anymore and to to the fact that

1392
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,599
we even have to

1393
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,760
have that debate still

1394
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:25,520
shows me just how much prejudice there

1395
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,040
is and how much inertia there is behind

1396
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:29,119
the the physicalist paradigm that

1397
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:30,640
doesn't know what to do with that so it

1398
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:32,240
just wants to not talk about it and it's

1399
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:34,960
amazing to me how successful

1400
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:37,520
that establishment has been in

1401
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:39,599
um

1402
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,160
in keeping to the margins any kind of

1403
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:44,400
parapsychological research that has

1404
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:48,079
arisen much like the phenomenon research

1405
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:49,680
but yes like you touched on there have

1406
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:52,319
been remote viewers who are remarkably

1407
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:54,800
capable have shown

1408
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:56,839
you know again there was a

1409
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,000
program funded by the cia

1410
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:02,559
at sri with help put off and

1411
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:05,119
russell targen people that ran for 20

1412
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:07,520
years okay it was it was a fully funded

1413
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:09,680
government program that run for 20 years

1414
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,559
you don't fund a program for 20 years

1415
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:14,960
if it doesn't produce results i mean

1416
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,119
there are already there are always more

1417
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:19,040
programs searching for money in

1418
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:20,640
governmental circles than there is money

1419
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:22,800
to go around so at the end of the day if

1420
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:25,200
you're not producing intel that's

1421
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:26,640
valuable especially in the midst of a

1422
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:29,119
cold war you're gonna get axed but they

1423
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:31,359
weren't axed they were funded for 20

1424
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:33,760
years and i still think it's still going

1425
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:35,119
on it's probably

1426
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:40,390
but

1427
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:42,880
we know that they were capable of for

1428
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:46,160
instance producing intel about

1429
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:47,680
military infrastructure within the

1430
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:49,520
soviet union right

1431
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:52,800
we have cases where they provided intel

1432
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:54,160
and what you do with that kind of intel

1433
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,760
is you try and verify it through other

1434
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:57,280
means and they were able to verify it

1435
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,200
through other means so we know that

1436
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:01,280
these guys joseph

1437
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:02,720
mcmonagle being one of them like you

1438
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:04,000
mentioned

1439
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:05,280
was able to

1440
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:08,960
see without seeing right uh you know

1441
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:12,000
without using his normal senses uh had a

1442
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:13,920
vision of this

1443
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:15,599
these various military infrastructure in

1444
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:17,599
the soviet union and later on they would

1445
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:19,040
take a picture when they actually found

1446
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,640
this thing eventually and it's

1447
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,319
remarkable there's no way you can say

1448
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:24,400
that that he kind of just guessed it's

1449
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:26,640
something that was not known to exist at

1450
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:27,680
the time

1451
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,800
even the

1452
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:30,240
the military brass didn't know what to

1453
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:31,760
do with it because they weren't aware of

1454
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:34,079
anything like that and yet later on it's

1455
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:35,680
verified as true so

1456
00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:37,200
i say that to point out that we've

1457
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:39,200
already seen that these guys produce

1458
00:51:42,230 --> 00:51:40,640
valid intel that's been verified

1459
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:42,240
elsewhere so we know they have a talent

1460
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:44,160
we know what really happens

1461
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:46,160
those same guys

1462
00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:47,680
like you mentioned some of them eric

1463
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,839
geller

1464
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:51,359
mcmonagle etc

1465
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:52,400
they

1466
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:53,359
also

1467
00:51:57,510 --> 00:51:54,880
um have

1468
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:57,520
remote viewed supposedly

1469
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,000
alien spacecraft sometimes orbiting the

1470
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:02,400
earth and sometimes even supposed alien

1471
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:03,839
bases like

1472
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:05,680
you know four major ones i remember

1473
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:08,000
being described around the earth in

1474
00:52:12,790 --> 00:52:10,400
different places

1475
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:12,800
and it's it's difficult to discount that

1476
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:15,119
because these are the same individuals

1477
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,000
that produced valid you know proven

1478
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:19,920
intel elsewhere

1479
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:21,760
and the way that

1480
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:24,319
any kind of psi works is that you know

1481
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:26,640
time and space kind of become irrelevant

1482
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:29,200
you know and the way that

1483
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,880
aspect right there is is a key part of

1484
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,960
the book i'm writing in terms of

1485
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:34,880
what does that tell us about reality the

1486
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:35,920
fact that

1487
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:38,240
we can sometimes perceive

1488
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:40,720
events that seem to not exist within

1489
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:42,480
space time at all what does that

1490
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:44,800
tell us about space time as a construct

1491
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:46,880
as opposed to you know the the

1492
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:50,000
the substratum of reality itself

1493
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:50,800
so

1494
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,280
yes i think that we have to look at the

1495
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,599
the remote viewing work um the psi work

1496
00:53:01,829 --> 00:52:57,599
that's been done and i think that's

1497
00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:01,839
another data point that suggests yes the

1498
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:04,000
aliens are here whatever they are right

1499
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:05,200
and again i think there's more than one

1500
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:06,319
source

1501
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:07,280
and

1502
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:09,599
likely there are things like

1503
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:11,440
not only craft but now we introduce

1504
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:13,359
things like alien bases you know and

1505
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:14,800
things like that

1506
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:15,920
and there's even been part of the

1507
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:18,079
literature that wants to

1508
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,280
you know

1509
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:21,119
speculate that perhaps even aspects of

1510
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:22,960
the government are in cahoots with some

1511
00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:25,520
of these others and you know people

1512
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:27,839
sometimes add abductees or contactees

1513
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:29,680
will report seeing

1514
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,079
human beings along with things like gray

1515
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:34,400
aliens in these bases right not to

1516
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:37,280
mention on board supposed spacecraft

1517
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,160
so

1518
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:40,079
that has led a lot of people to say aha

1519
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,920
not only does the government know that

1520
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,200
they're here but they're actually

1521
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:45,440
working with them and they've made these

1522
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:48,880
you know agreements these concords to uh

1523
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:52,000
let them abduct people in in exchange

1524
00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:55,520
for technology and those kind of things

1525
00:53:58,950 --> 00:53:57,359
that's uh that's a whole other ball of

1526
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:58,960
wax to get into

1527
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:01,920
um but all it is to say yes i think

1528
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,440
psi is real psy is a central

1529
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:07,520
data point to make sense of the entire

1530
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:08,880
phenomenon

1531
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,000
and it's something we need to pay

1532
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:12,800
attention pension to in terms of

1533
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:13,920
what's actually going on what the

1534
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:15,920
government knows etc

1535
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:17,599
yeah and i want to point out that for

1536
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:19,280
our listeners you know we we're talking

1537
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:21,280
about these uh

1538
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:27,430
and as it relates to disclosure because

1539
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:30,000
it points to the complexity of this

1540
00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:31,680
just generally

1541
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:35,119
that it's no there's no simple

1542
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,440
narrative that can just be you know

1543
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,520
written down on a one sheet of paper

1544
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:41,599
that kind of explains what's happening

1545
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:43,839
here i can think even more recently of a

1546
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,040
great example of this that in in in the

1547
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,440
ufo community was

1548
00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:51,119
got kind of a lukewarm reception and

1549
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:53,599
that's skin walkers at the pentacon you

1550
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:55,040
know talking about

1551
00:55:01,750 --> 00:54:57,839
awsap and the work of

1552
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:01,760
james lakatsky and bob bigelow

1553
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:03,520
you know with skinwalker ranch and the

1554
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:06,079
phenomenon that was observed there again

1555
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:09,440
a funded program over many years

1556
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:11,040
involving a lot of government

1557
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:13,200
professionals some very highly

1558
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:14,880
credentialed people

1559
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:16,799
with with exceptional backgrounds and

1560
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:18,319
security clearances

1561
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:20,880
reporting in this book a range of

1562
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,680
phenomenon that is you know kind of out

1563
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:25,440
there if i were just to be candid and i

1564
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:26,960
think that's part of the

1565
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:29,040
reason why i got such a you know kind of

1566
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:30,319
a

1567
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,280
fitting into their into their notion of

1568
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:40,960
disclosure and we haven't talked about

1569
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:43,359
this really explicitly but that's part

1570
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:46,079
of this conversation there's disclosure

1571
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,920
as it is and there's disclosure as i

1572
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:49,200
want it to be

1573
00:55:52,789 --> 00:55:50,880
you know and so when you're handed this

1574
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,799
piece and you're saying okay here's a

1575
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,920
piece for you it's part of the

1576
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:55,119
disclosure narrative and you're looking

1577
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:56,319
at it and going like well this isn't

1578
00:56:00,630 --> 00:55:59,040
going to go into my puzzle

1579
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:00,640
you know this doesn't fit with what i've

1580
00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:02,960
already constructed so

1581
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:04,640
uh this must be bogus you can't be

1582
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,720
serious like i'm sorry you know

1583
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:08,160
you can take this book and i don't need

1584
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:08,799
it

1585
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:11,520
i think that's um premature i think i

1586
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:14,319
think over time we're gonna find that

1587
00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:15,119
the

1588
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:21,520
does point somewhere

1589
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:24,160
and is going to be part of the overall

1590
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,799
story but i i wonder you know to what

1591
00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:28,720
degree have you kind of thought about

1592
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,079
that and uh and and where does uh a

1593
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:34,480
place like skinwalker ranch and all the

1594
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,240
purported phenomenon that takes place

1595
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:37,760
there where does that fit in into this

1596
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:39,680
conversation

1597
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:42,079
yeah it's a great point and i think

1598
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:44,799
you raised a really important uh notion

1599
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:46,799
that to some degree you could argue

1600
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:48,240
there's been

1601
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:49,920
you know a slow leak of disclosure

1602
00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:52,000
already you know a book like

1603
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:54,079
skinwalkers of the pentagon not only got

1604
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:56,559
written but it got approved right these

1605
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,079
are guys that because they had top

1606
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:00,480
secret clearances

1607
00:57:03,349 --> 00:57:02,559
you know calm kelleher and lakatsky and

1608
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:03,359
stuff

1609
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:05,200
had to get this

1610
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:08,319
like line by line read you know and and

1611
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:10,160
approved they could only release for

1612
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,240
publication what was willing to be

1613
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,319
released by by the government right by

1614
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,640
the authorities they worked for

1615
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,480
um that tells you something right there

1616
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:20,960
that you you could argue that

1617
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:23,359
what the government has decided is that

1618
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:25,040
the best way to let this out is through

1619
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:26,559
slow leaks

1620
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:28,640
and and through there's this notion of

1621
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:30,720
you know plausible deniability

1622
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:34,160
you you release information so that

1623
00:57:37,349 --> 00:57:35,599
you get into the collective

1624
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:37,359
consciousness these notions that this

1625
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:39,440
might be going on right so you you

1626
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:41,200
desensitize people to the notion that

1627
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,760
might be shocking otherwise if

1628
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:45,520
you had a presidential address that said

1629
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:47,920
it outright so instead you you slowly

1630
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,680
leak it into the

1631
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:51,839
into the consciousness right into the

1632
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:53,839
the social spheres and whatnot so it

1633
00:57:58,710 --> 00:57:56,319
becomes part of the ongoing conversation

1634
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:58,720
so that when one day you get more direct

1635
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,200
confirmation that's what it is it's more

1636
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,960
confirmation of what was already kind of

1637
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:04,880
in the ethos

1638
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:06,640
so

1639
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:09,920
like you i've been surprised by

1640
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:11,359
so first of all i want to say none of

1641
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:13,040
the weirdness surprises me at all i

1642
00:58:16,549 --> 00:58:14,480
think that

1643
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:16,559
the research i've done says that

1644
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:19,200
absolutely all of that is happening and

1645
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:23,520
and what's fascinating there is that

1646
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,680
they decided that based on historical

1647
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:27,280
research that had already been done by

1648
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:29,040
people like bob bigelow and his

1649
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:30,720
organization

1650
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:32,640
with nids and whatnot

1651
00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:35,200
it had already been shown that these

1652
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:39,200
other anomalous phenomena would co-arise

1653
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:42,559
with ufos so it's a it's a false

1654
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:45,200
distinction to say let's just focus on

1655
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:46,400
ufos

1656
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:47,520
because

1657
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:50,160
that that be like trying to to resolve

1658
00:58:53,670 --> 00:58:51,520
some sort of disease that you're trying

1659
00:58:54,789 --> 00:58:53,680
to figure out but you'll you say we're

1660
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:54,799
only going to pay attention to these

1661
00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:56,240
data points even though these other ones

1662
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:58,240
keep showing up we're going to pretend

1663
00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:00,559
that those don't exist because it it's

1664
00:59:04,309 --> 00:59:02,400
unnerving and doesn't fit with our

1665
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,319
conventional understanding of reality

1666
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:06,319
now if if you're truly taking a

1667
00:59:09,829 --> 00:59:08,079
scientific approach and i

1668
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:09,839
you know commend these guys for doing

1669
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:11,599
exactly that

1670
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,760
you you say no if this is what the data

1671
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:15,760
shows us then we follow it

1672
00:59:20,069 --> 00:59:18,319
we don't go in with a presupposition

1673
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:20,079
about reality and exclude everything

1674
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:21,520
that doesn't fit that that's not how you

1675
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,920
should do science you go in and say

1676
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:25,920
look this is what we see we have to

1677
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,839
rethink again this gets back to what

1678
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:29,520
i've been thinking about is

1679
00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:31,920
what kind of conception of reality would

1680
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:34,000
be such that those kind of phenomena

1681
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:36,240
would be predictable you know

1682
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:37,119
and

1683
00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:39,680
absolutely skinwalker ranch is a really

1684
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,440
key piece and

1685
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:42,640
it is

1686
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:45,359
strange to me that that book

1687
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,480
hasn't had more of an impact i mean

1688
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:50,480
we're talking about not just people as

1689
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:52,240
much as people complain about anecdotal

1690
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:53,280
stories

1691
00:59:56,950 --> 00:59:54,880
these are researchers going in with

1692
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:56,960
sensor systems and whatnot people highly

1693
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:59,200
credentialed who for the longest time

1694
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:00,559
this is the last thing they would want

1695
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:01,920
to be associated with because it's a

1696
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:04,079
career killer right but

1697
01:00:08,309 --> 01:00:06,000
thankfully these guys were

1698
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:08,319
you know taken with curiosity to say

1699
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:10,559
wait a second something's going on we've

1700
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:13,359
we've got objective data let's look into

1701
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:15,920
it and and yeah when people hear about

1702
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:17,680
seven foot tall

1703
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:19,839
wolf like creatures smoking cigarettes

1704
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:21,599
leaning up against a light post standing

1705
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:23,119
on two legs

1706
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:24,400
you know showing up on the other side of

1707
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:25,839
the country from skinwalker ranch

1708
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:27,119
because of some sort of hitchhiker

1709
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:29,040
phenomena that happened

1710
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:31,040
that's really out there right like some

1711
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:32,880
people just go

1712
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,440
i can't go there like and so they they

1713
01:00:40,069 --> 01:00:37,359
unconsciously

1714
01:00:41,670 --> 01:00:40,079
just delete that data from from their

1715
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:41,680
consciousness right and say can we get

1716
01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:43,920
back to the eth and confirming that the

1717
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:50,230
no we can't we we can't do that and and

1718
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:52,480
like you've been pointing out

1719
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,720
that's why disclosure is so complex

1720
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,119
because it's it's a fundamental

1721
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:59,440
rewriting i'm convinced of what reality

1722
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:01,920
is and so the way i look we talk about

1723
01:01:06,069 --> 01:01:03,040
different people it means different

1724
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:06,079
things too to me that's what capital d

1725
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:07,920
disclosure ultimately is is that the

1726
01:01:11,190 --> 01:01:09,920
very fabric of reality is not what we

1727
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:11,200
thought it was

1728
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:13,200
that um

1729
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:15,119
how do you disclose that

1730
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:17,680
there's no easy answer and on top of

1731
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:19,520
that there are plenty of people who look

1732
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:21,359
at the same data and not come to that

1733
01:01:24,630 --> 01:01:22,640
conclusion because they have different

1734
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,640
presuppositions or different backgrounds

1735
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:26,079
or whatever

1736
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:26,960
so

1737
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:28,799
it's not even that when you look at

1738
01:01:32,549 --> 01:01:30,720
sometimes like even with scientific

1739
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:32,559
revolutions

1740
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:34,319
something will be clear in the data

1741
01:01:37,990 --> 01:01:36,240
it'll take decades and decades and

1742
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:38,000
decades before it works itself into the

1743
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:40,319
mainstream because of the prejudice and

1744
01:01:43,829 --> 01:01:42,160
the inertia that the current mainstream

1745
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:43,839
view has it's just the nature of the

1746
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:44,640
game

1747
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,319
for the longest time the church kind of

1748
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:49,119
you know set the tone for what reality

1749
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:50,400
consisted of

1750
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:52,240
and then it kind of shifted to science

1751
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:54,640
right and now there's a mainstream view

1752
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:56,240
of physicalism as the underlying

1753
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:58,240
paradigm even though there's been

1754
01:02:02,230 --> 01:02:00,559
evidence for a long time now especially

1755
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:02,240
in quantum mechanics going back 100

1756
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:05,200
years ago that that model is faulty that

1757
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:07,359
it's not even tenable not just that it

1758
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:09,680
has some holes it's just not tenable and

1759
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:12,240
yet it's only slowly working its way

1760
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,240
through the establishment and usually it

1761
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:16,559
takes a lot of funerals to be honest

1762
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:17,599
with you

1763
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:20,160
and generational shifts before that is

1764
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:22,960
even capable of happening so

1765
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:24,640
that's why you mentioned it early on in

1766
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,160
this conversation this is probably a

1767
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:27,839
multi-generational

1768
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,799
um

1769
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:30,720
matter if we're talking about really

1770
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:32,400
capital d disclosure in terms of what's

1771
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:34,880
really involved

1772
01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:37,039
well we've talked a good bit about

1773
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:37,920
you know

1774
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,440
what the government may know what the

1775
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:41,359
government has studied

1776
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:42,319
um

1777
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:43,920
there's another component to this as

1778
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:47,280
well and that's the things that

1779
01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:49,760
we have have heard and read and

1780
01:02:53,829 --> 01:02:51,839
uh and many of us experienced and that

1781
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:53,839
is that that personal experience of of

1782
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:56,799
the phenomenon of where individuals

1783
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:00,400
already have a firsthand a very visceral

1784
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:02,960
uh experience of of that fabric of

1785
01:03:07,190 --> 01:03:05,200
reality being distorted and different

1786
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:07,200
than they thought before

1787
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:11,039
and so i think uh the community

1788
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:12,559
as far as i can tell really does

1789
01:03:16,630 --> 01:03:14,799
struggle with with that component of

1790
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:16,640
this because and this speaks to

1791
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:17,920
something that that i've talked about

1792
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:19,760
before and that's

1793
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:22,720
the one aspect of disclosure is

1794
01:03:29,029 --> 01:03:25,760
is is how truth itself is mediated in

1795
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:29,039
society you know so how how

1796
01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:31,119
whatever is is

1797
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:34,400
is given or granted in uh in public in

1798
01:03:39,510 --> 01:03:36,640
public square through the media through

1799
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:39,520
government channels etc you know

1800
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,240
those if if it travels through certain

1801
01:03:47,029 --> 01:03:45,359
avenues and pathways it becomes

1802
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:47,039
part of the truth that is commonly

1803
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,720
accepted becomes part of consensus

1804
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:50,000
reality

1805
01:03:55,349 --> 01:03:52,880
you know i i'm struggling with the

1806
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:55,359
individual experiences and understanding

1807
01:04:01,990 --> 01:03:56,720
how

1808
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:02,000
onto a stage that that that would

1809
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:04,640
make its way into consensus reality at

1810
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:06,000
the same time

1811
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:07,440
you know there's kind of this like

1812
01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:09,680
almost like an irony to that because

1813
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:11,839
you and i both know that when you begin

1814
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:14,559
having this conversation with people

1815
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:16,160
and you open the door to this

1816
01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:17,920
strangeness

1817
01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:20,240
more often than not you'll find that

1818
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:22,799
people have have an experience they

1819
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:24,720
won't they want to share or they know

1820
01:04:29,190 --> 01:04:27,039
someone who did either in their family

1821
01:04:32,309 --> 01:04:29,200
or a close friend or whatnot so

1822
01:04:34,710 --> 01:04:32,319
uh there's there tends to be quite a bit

1823
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:34,720
of uh

1824
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:37,280
of personal experience that everyone

1825
01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:39,680
kind of carries with them that they have

1826
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,280
trouble explaining

1827
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:43,760
and you know our our sort of very highly

1828
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:44,880
rational

1829
01:04:49,589 --> 01:04:47,520
uh you know left brain society tends to

1830
01:04:51,510 --> 01:04:49,599
kind of take those experiences and we we

1831
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:51,520
say ah you know that's uh

1832
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:54,400
you know you were tired or uh you know

1833
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:57,119
you you had too much to drink or

1834
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:59,280
uh you were having an episode or

1835
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,520
whatever it is uh you know you saw a

1836
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:03,359
shadow and that was just a tree or you

1837
01:05:08,549 --> 01:05:05,440
know like we try to explain everything

1838
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,559
away but you know to me the um

1839
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:10,400
the difficulty with that

1840
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:12,240
way of approaching it is just the the

1841
01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:15,760
sheer sum total of experiences uh that

1842
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:17,440
that we hear about and that we know

1843
01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:20,400
about from in our own experiences to me

1844
01:05:23,829 --> 01:05:21,599
outweigh

1845
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:23,839
that argument uh and kind of make it

1846
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:26,880
seem silly so it does come back to what

1847
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:28,880
you said a minute ago that we are

1848
01:05:32,710 --> 01:05:31,200
fighting against the inertia of the

1849
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,720
model of the world what we have

1850
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:34,480
inherited and so

1851
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:38,240
how do we think that

1852
01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:40,640
these individual experiences will make

1853
01:05:45,670 --> 01:05:43,359
their way into this

1854
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:45,680
this unfolding story you know will it be

1855
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:49,200
kind of a a co-creative process where

1856
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:51,520
and i kind of tend to think it will that

1857
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:53,680
as the government you know kind of peels

1858
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:55,920
back some of these layers and says well

1859
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:57,680
hey there's now this and there's now

1860
01:06:02,549 --> 01:06:00,240
that well then that kind of gives uh

1861
01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:02,559
permission to to

1862
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:05,039
everyone to say oh you know i i saw one

1863
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:06,640
of those and i had an experience kind of

1864
01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:08,960
like that and then that itself

1865
01:06:13,430 --> 01:06:11,200
is a feedback mechanism that then the

1866
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:13,440
government's going okay now you know

1867
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:15,760
people are cool with this uh we can now

1868
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:18,720
unfold this layer of the story so it ha

1869
01:06:23,589 --> 01:06:21,200
it is a very much a

1870
01:06:25,029 --> 01:06:23,599
a co-creative process and i don't know

1871
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:25,039
that many people talk of disclosure in

1872
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:26,400
that way we tend to think of it as very

1873
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:28,079
much like transactional it's very

1874
01:06:32,549 --> 01:06:30,400
one-sided the government's gonna do it

1875
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:32,559
we're gonna take it and then okay great

1876
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:34,000
let's run with that new knowledge that

1877
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:36,160
we've been that we have received

1878
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:38,880
i think the reality is it's it's in what

1879
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:40,160
we're i think i would argue what we're

1880
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:42,480
actually seeing is that it is this

1881
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:43,760
relational

1882
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:46,640
uh in a sort of unfolding of information

1883
01:06:53,670 --> 01:06:49,359
and it it requires the participation of

1884
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:53,680
society just generally uh and and and

1885
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:55,520
that's super important too in today's

1886
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:57,520
world because there's a tremendous

1887
01:07:01,510 --> 01:07:00,079
degree of distrust in government itself

1888
01:07:03,430 --> 01:07:01,520
so even if the government were to come

1889
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:03,440
out and say hey here you go guys here it

1890
01:07:07,670 --> 01:07:05,520
is here it all is on the silver platter

1891
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:07,680
i can guarantee that that our society

1892
01:07:11,430 --> 01:07:09,200
would take to social media then that

1893
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:11,440
next day and and rip that thing to

1894
01:07:15,190 --> 01:07:12,640
pieces

1895
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:15,200
and so it kind of has to be

1896
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:16,559
this uh

1897
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:18,880
path where everyone's got some skin in

1898
01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:21,440
the game and what are the little sort of

1899
01:07:27,430 --> 01:07:24,720
pieces and nuggets that can be uh shared

1900
01:07:31,109 --> 01:07:27,440
that facilitate and catalyze

1901
01:07:33,109 --> 01:07:31,119
the the the doors opening to to these

1902
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:33,119
other stories and participation of the

1903
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:35,039
populace

1904
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:37,760
yeah several excellent points there um

1905
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:39,200
one of them being

1906
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:40,880
and i agree with you that

1907
01:07:44,870 --> 01:07:42,480
we need to remember that in many ways

1908
01:07:47,349 --> 01:07:44,880
government reflects society it doesn't

1909
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:47,359
it doesn't direct it you know and

1910
01:07:51,430 --> 01:07:49,440
when we think about social movements

1911
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:51,440
that have changed that have eventually

1912
01:07:54,390 --> 01:07:52,559
become

1913
01:07:56,549 --> 01:07:54,400
enshrined in law

1914
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:56,559
it's not because some lawmakers got

1915
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:57,920
together and said hey you know what this

1916
01:08:01,430 --> 01:08:00,000
is actually the way

1917
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:01,440
this would be on the side of justice so

1918
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,839
we'll just change the laws no you get

1919
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:06,000
years and years and years of a buildup

1920
01:08:11,190 --> 01:08:07,920
of lobbying

1921
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:11,200
amongst a society till till you have a

1922
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:13,920
majority of people or at least the most

1923
01:08:18,229 --> 01:08:15,680
influential people

1924
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:18,239
agree that that actually is

1925
01:08:22,149 --> 01:08:20,159
good and right and just

1926
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:22,159
then the laws change we we need to

1927
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:23,759
remember that and so i think that's an

1928
01:08:26,870 --> 01:08:24,960
excellent point

1929
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:26,880
um that

1930
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:28,719
already disclosure is happening but it's

1931
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:30,640
happening one conversation at a time

1932
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:33,120
right one person to another

1933
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:34,799
across generations

1934
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:36,560
and like you say

1935
01:08:41,189 --> 01:08:38,880
every time a conversation's had

1936
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:41,199
uh and we salute the brave people who

1937
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:42,640
who have the conversations even when

1938
01:08:46,229 --> 01:08:44,319
they're rejected for it

1939
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,239
um even when their mental health is

1940
01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:48,159
called into question for it

1941
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:50,560
every time we do that it's like another

1942
01:08:55,030 --> 01:08:53,679
anchor point into this being real

1943
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:55,040
and that

1944
01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:58,000
slowly takes away from the stigma

1945
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:01,520
it slowly bases it in reality for people

1946
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:03,759
and at some point it shifts into the

1947
01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:07,920
majority where people go like you said

1948
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:09,759
everyone gets to the point where they go

1949
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:11,199
i either had an experience or i know

1950
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:13,199
someone that did you know that's not

1951
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:15,120
explainable by one of these traditional

1952
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,799
means

1953
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:18,880
so so that part's

1954
01:09:23,669 --> 01:09:21,679
important to remember um

1955
01:09:25,669 --> 01:09:23,679
and we need to remember that recently

1956
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:25,679
it's it's become clear uh in the

1957
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:27,839
research i've done certainly that

1958
01:09:32,709 --> 01:09:30,560
a lot of the people even in these

1959
01:09:35,110 --> 01:09:32,719
intelligence community circles

1960
01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:35,120
are experiencers themselves

1961
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:37,440
so it's not like they're trying to hold

1962
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,400
back

1963
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,799
this truth or don't believe it many of

1964
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:43,040
them have personal experience

1965
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:44,560
um

1966
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:46,319
you could even argue

1967
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:48,560
going big picture here

1968
01:09:51,749 --> 01:09:50,000
meta perspective

1969
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:51,759
that perhaps even the phenomenon the

1970
01:09:54,790 --> 01:09:53,440
intelligence behind the phenomenon or

1971
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:54,800
some of them

1972
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:55,760
are

1973
01:10:04,310 --> 01:10:00,719
within those places of power and

1974
01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:06,870
shift the tide right because

1975
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:08,320
maybe the intelligence behind the

1976
01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:10,239
phenomenon is aware that a sudden

1977
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:11,840
disclosure would not be good we haven't

1978
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:13,679
even talked about this right the piece

1979
01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:16,159
about how much does the phenomenon the

1980
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:17,920
intelligence behind the phenomenon play

1981
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:20,960
a role in disclosure because

1982
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:23,520
some people would rightly argue listen

1983
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:25,199
if they wanted to they could

1984
01:10:29,030 --> 01:10:27,520
make capital d disclosure happen

1985
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:29,040
tomorrow you know land on the white

1986
01:10:31,910 --> 01:10:30,800
house lawn right

1987
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:31,920
um

1988
01:10:37,270 --> 01:10:33,920
so maybe there's some you know

1989
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:37,280
calculation going on there that that

1990
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:38,560
again some people will look at that and

1991
01:10:41,669 --> 01:10:40,960
go that looks devious and deceptive to

1992
01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:41,679
me

1993
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:44,239
i can't make any goodness out of that

1994
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:46,000
other people might say no

1995
01:10:50,390 --> 01:10:48,640
that actually is a rational and caring

1996
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:50,400
way to respond to not completely

1997
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:53,440
destabilize a civilization in one go

1998
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:55,120
so there's that piece too

1999
01:11:01,510 --> 01:10:57,199
but you make an excellent point also

2000
01:11:04,709 --> 01:11:01,520
that for many people disclosure is about

2001
01:11:05,669 --> 01:11:04,719
personal vindication right that they

2002
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:05,679
they

2003
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:07,440
have had experiences

2004
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:08,880
or they know someone that did maybe a

2005
01:11:12,470 --> 01:11:10,239
family member maybe a parent and

2006
01:11:14,070 --> 01:11:12,480
grandparent that really suffered and

2007
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:14,080
died without ever getting disclosure and

2008
01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:16,320
they feel like they want to you know

2009
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:18,400
avenge those people right

2010
01:11:20,470 --> 01:11:19,600
um

2011
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:20,480
and

2012
01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:22,960
when you've been told that you're either

2013
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:26,800
crazy or you're making stuff up then

2014
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:28,800
yeah you can understand why people would

2015
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:31,440
want some authority to come forward and

2016
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:34,320
say no this is this is real this really

2017
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:36,320
happens this is part of reality this is

2018
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:38,880
real life because then suddenly

2019
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:41,040
not only do they have vindication

2020
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:42,800
amongst their family and friends

2021
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:44,159
but some of these people are still

2022
01:11:47,910 --> 01:11:45,840
questioning their own mental health some

2023
01:11:50,550 --> 01:11:47,920
of these people are still questioning

2024
01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:50,560
you know how more to reality are they if

2025
01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:51,760
they've had these experiences or

2026
01:11:55,990 --> 01:11:54,320
continue to have them so they want some

2027
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:56,000
sort of context right they they have

2028
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,880
these

2029
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:58,800
outlier experiences that they don't know

2030
01:12:03,189 --> 01:12:00,640
where to put them right they don't fit

2031
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:03,199
within any of our conventional narrative

2032
01:12:07,189 --> 01:12:06,000
you know you wake up in the forest

2033
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:07,199
outside your house and you don't know

2034
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:08,800
how you got there and your clothes are

2035
01:12:13,270 --> 01:12:10,480
put on backwards i mean

2036
01:12:15,030 --> 01:12:13,280
stuff like that

2037
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:15,040
how do you make sense of that there is

2038
01:12:19,990 --> 01:12:17,920
no like consensus consensus narrative

2039
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:20,000
right now that says oh that's a case of

2040
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:21,360
this

2041
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:23,360
so these people want some sort of

2042
01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:25,120
contextual

2043
01:12:29,350 --> 01:12:28,000
um grounding to

2044
01:12:31,830 --> 01:12:29,360
make sense of it for themselves for

2045
01:12:33,510 --> 01:12:31,840
their own mental health for their own

2046
01:12:34,870 --> 01:12:33,520
closure you know that's that's another

2047
01:12:37,110 --> 01:12:34,880
word we could use but instead of

2048
01:12:40,390 --> 01:12:37,120
disclosure it's closure some closure to

2049
01:12:43,430 --> 01:12:40,400
say aha this is as much part of reality

2050
01:12:46,149 --> 01:12:43,440
as me having you know

2051
01:12:48,149 --> 01:12:46,159
bran flakes for breakfast you know

2052
01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:48,159
so yeah the personal piece uh is

2053
01:12:50,790 --> 01:12:49,600
important and i think

2054
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:50,800
many of the people we know in our

2055
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:52,640
circles that are kind of really obsessed

2056
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:55,040
with this uh with this topic

2057
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:56,800
are are in it because there is a

2058
01:13:01,750 --> 01:12:59,280
personal angle for sure

2059
01:13:03,750 --> 01:13:01,760
yeah you've hit directly on the stakes

2060
01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:03,760
you know what are the stakes here at

2061
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:04,719
play

2062
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:08,320
uh and the delicate nature in which

2063
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:10,719
this topic has to be handled

2064
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:12,400
uh just broadly

2065
01:13:17,669 --> 01:13:13,760
and and i think

2066
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:20,149
we really like this romantic notion that

2067
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:22,719
there's there is one party that has all

2068
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:24,400
of the right answers here and that can

2069
01:13:27,030 --> 01:13:25,679
just sort of

2070
01:13:29,590 --> 01:13:27,040
make it known

2071
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:29,600
but the the reality seems to be that it

2072
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,400
is very much a collective

2073
01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:34,480
it will be a collective disclosure it

2074
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:36,880
will be a collective unfolding

2075
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:39,120
that there are the very highly personal

2076
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:40,560
elements of this

2077
01:13:45,510 --> 01:13:43,360
there are the uh community elements the

2078
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:45,520
global elements and the geopolitical

2079
01:13:49,430 --> 01:13:47,600
elements i mean you know sort of

2080
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:49,440
you know jokingly i can talk about well

2081
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:51,040
we get disclosure tomorrow and think of

2082
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:52,480
all the all the new bureaucracy we're

2083
01:13:56,310 --> 01:13:53,760
gonna have

2084
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:56,320
you know i got to uh i gotta you know

2085
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:58,080
file this paperwork to interact with

2086
01:14:02,470 --> 01:13:59,679
this being or you know whatever it may

2087
01:14:04,790 --> 01:14:02,480
be and you can take these things to a

2088
01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:04,800
crazy conclusion

2089
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:07,040
but uh but but

2090
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,199
nevertheless we were talking about

2091
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:11,280
increased levels of complexity

2092
01:14:15,270 --> 01:14:13,679
complexity in our understanding of of of

2093
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:15,280
reality itself

2094
01:14:19,110 --> 01:14:17,840
and that not only affects the here and

2095
01:14:21,189 --> 01:14:19,120
now

2096
01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:21,199
it affects our future it affects our

2097
01:14:26,229 --> 01:14:23,840
future as a species on this planet it

2098
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:26,239
affects our past how we interpret the

2099
01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:29,280
events of our lives and and what we may

2100
01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:31,840
have written off as something completely

2101
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:34,880
mundane and prosaic uh you know that a

2102
01:14:39,910 --> 01:14:37,360
dream we had years ago and if that is

2103
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:39,920
somehow part of what this really is well

2104
01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:42,000
now i have to i have to take that i have

2105
01:14:45,669 --> 01:14:43,679
to pull it out of that drawer and go

2106
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:45,679
okay what does this now mean you know

2107
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:47,360
what does this mean for me

2108
01:14:51,990 --> 01:14:50,000
in the here now and going forward

2109
01:14:54,630 --> 01:14:52,000
these are huge questions

2110
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:54,640
and i don't think that folks

2111
01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:57,360
have necessarily grappled with

2112
01:15:03,510 --> 01:14:58,719
the

2113
01:15:07,030 --> 01:15:03,520
has tendrils that that reach into sort

2114
01:15:08,709 --> 01:15:07,040
of every single facet of our our psyche

2115
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:08,719
and our society

2116
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:11,920
uh you know it's it's it's as tectonic

2117
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:13,199
as it gets

2118
01:15:16,149 --> 01:15:15,280
and i would hope

2119
01:15:18,550 --> 01:15:16,159
that

2120
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:18,560
wherever we're going with this

2121
01:15:21,189 --> 01:15:19,679
that

2122
01:15:23,110 --> 01:15:21,199
the others

2123
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:23,120
whoever they may be

2124
01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:25,520
you know i would lean on them

2125
01:15:29,030 --> 01:15:27,920
and i would do so hesitantly as well i

2126
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:29,040
might add

2127
01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:31,360
to be a partner in helping us navigate

2128
01:15:33,270 --> 01:15:32,320
this

2129
01:15:34,790 --> 01:15:33,280
um

2130
01:15:36,310 --> 01:15:34,800
you know and i will say this on that

2131
01:15:37,669 --> 01:15:36,320
topic

2132
01:15:40,950 --> 01:15:37,679
you know i very much and i've said this

2133
01:15:43,830 --> 01:15:40,960
on other shows i i i have i struggle

2134
01:15:45,750 --> 01:15:43,840
with this notion of um

2135
01:15:48,709 --> 01:15:45,760
of asymmetric

2136
01:15:51,669 --> 01:15:48,719
uh you know sort of information here um

2137
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:51,679
and and ability right so if the others

2138
01:15:58,870 --> 01:15:52,560
uh

2139
01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:58,880
reality or have obviously greater

2140
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:00,159
knowledge of

2141
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:02,320
of what we would consider to be science

2142
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:03,679
or you know all these things there's an

2143
01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:05,199
information disparity i think we could

2144
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:07,440
at least say that much

2145
01:16:11,270 --> 01:16:10,000
then whenever there is an interaction

2146
01:16:14,149 --> 01:16:11,280
with them

2147
01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:14,159
you know what is it that we can look to

2148
01:16:19,590 --> 01:16:16,800
as some sort of means of saying

2149
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:19,600
okay i can trust whatever this is i can

2150
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:20,400
have

2151
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:22,560
you know i can whatever it's telling me

2152
01:16:29,189 --> 01:16:25,120
or explaining to me you know i can have

2153
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:29,199
some degree of of trust and fidelity

2154
01:16:33,189 --> 01:16:30,800
that this is

2155
01:16:34,310 --> 01:16:33,199
this is good this is valuable

2156
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:34,320
i don't know what i don't know the

2157
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:36,000
answer to that you know i'm not quite

2158
01:16:39,990 --> 01:16:38,560
sure i understand how we would go about

2159
01:16:42,709 --> 01:16:40,000
figuring that out

2160
01:16:44,950 --> 01:16:42,719
um you know we'd like to think and we

2161
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:44,960
you know a lot of our science fiction

2162
01:16:47,189 --> 01:16:45,760
uh

2163
01:16:49,030 --> 01:16:47,199
you know at least on the star trek side

2164
01:16:51,189 --> 01:16:49,040
for the most part

2165
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:51,199
you know sort of talks about these you

2166
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:53,520
know this this collective of lots of

2167
01:16:57,030 --> 01:16:54,880
different entities and they're kind of

2168
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:57,040
working together i mean this is a very

2169
01:17:00,390 --> 01:16:58,800
you know the sense of cooperation is

2170
01:17:02,550 --> 01:17:00,400
very attractive so we'd like to kind of

2171
01:17:04,709 --> 01:17:02,560
hope that that's the way that it is

2172
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:04,719
but i mean we have no idea we have no

2173
01:17:08,950 --> 01:17:06,800
idea that that's the way it will be and

2174
01:17:11,189 --> 01:17:08,960
so i you know i struggle with

2175
01:17:13,750 --> 01:17:11,199
not only the

2176
01:17:16,070 --> 01:17:13,760
uh the ways in which disclosure will

2177
01:17:17,830 --> 01:17:16,080
rewrite our personal stories but the way

2178
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:17,840
in which we will

2179
01:17:22,870 --> 01:17:20,560
relate as a species just generally with

2180
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:22,880
whatever this new reality becomes for

2181
01:17:26,950 --> 01:17:24,960
for us

2182
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:26,960
yeah when you were describing

2183
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:28,640
that process i was thinking about when

2184
01:17:33,669 --> 01:17:30,719
you use the expression tectonic it

2185
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:33,679
absolutely is and i was reminded of a of

2186
01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:35,360
a video i remember seeing last year of

2187
01:17:39,110 --> 01:17:37,120
this these people were driving through

2188
01:17:41,350 --> 01:17:39,120
the forest

2189
01:17:43,669 --> 01:17:41,360
and there had been a lot of rain that

2190
01:17:46,229 --> 01:17:43,679
week this insane amount of rain and

2191
01:17:48,229 --> 01:17:46,239
suddenly one by one these massive you

2192
01:17:49,590 --> 01:17:48,239
know pine trees you know that were

2193
01:17:51,990 --> 01:17:49,600
soaring into the sky just started

2194
01:17:53,590 --> 01:17:52,000
falling one after another you know onto

2195
01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:53,600
the road and

2196
01:17:58,229 --> 01:17:56,400
and that's what i i would use that kind

2197
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,239
of as an analogy for what this is like

2198
01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:00,400
these these aspects of reality and

2199
01:18:06,229 --> 01:18:03,920
society that we've trusted are solid and

2200
01:18:07,830 --> 01:18:06,239
pillars of you know trust kind of thing

2201
01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:07,840
that we just take for granted that this

2202
01:18:11,430 --> 01:18:09,840
is the way the world is

2203
01:18:12,630 --> 01:18:11,440
this is the way life works this is

2204
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:12,640
reality

2205
01:18:17,110 --> 01:18:14,800
that if the implications suddenly make

2206
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:17,120
those pillars start falling like those

2207
01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:23,590
is your view of disclosure the same like

2208
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:25,360
i really want people to wrestle with

2209
01:18:30,149 --> 01:18:27,360
that you know um

2210
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:30,159
just think about the the

2211
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:32,960
the toll that would play you know like

2212
01:18:37,189 --> 01:18:35,040
what would that look like for people's

2213
01:18:38,790 --> 01:18:37,199
lives because if you if you care about

2214
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:38,800
people and and

2215
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:40,719
the challenge it already is for so many

2216
01:18:46,550 --> 01:18:43,760
people just to make it through the world

2217
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:46,560
what would that added implication bring

2218
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:48,719
you know a lot of people

2219
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:50,400
kind of have this kind of love and light

2220
01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:52,000
perspective which i understand from one

2221
01:18:55,910 --> 01:18:54,159
point of view that this intelligence has

2222
01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:55,920
technology that could help us resolve

2223
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:57,600
global warming that could get us off the

2224
01:19:01,910 --> 01:18:59,440
petroleum economy

2225
01:19:04,229 --> 01:19:01,920
um that could you know

2226
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:04,239
give us better solutions than capitalism

2227
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:05,760
you know

2228
01:19:09,990 --> 01:19:08,159
all these things that seem like really

2229
01:19:11,590 --> 01:19:10,000
pressing matters that it

2230
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:11,600
it's frustrating to some people and some

2231
01:19:15,990 --> 01:19:13,679
people like you know shake their fists

2232
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:16,000
at these others and say

2233
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:17,760
look we need a hand here why don't you

2234
01:19:23,990 --> 01:19:19,600
step in now

2235
01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:24,000
but i think again you you have to ask

2236
01:19:27,110 --> 01:19:24,960
yourself

2237
01:19:29,430 --> 01:19:27,120
what might make them not step in right

2238
01:19:32,950 --> 01:19:29,440
now the way you're thinking like

2239
01:19:35,830 --> 01:19:32,960
don't assume you have all of the

2240
01:19:37,510 --> 01:19:35,840
necessary uh elements in mind to decide

2241
01:19:39,189 --> 01:19:37,520
whether or not that's a justifiable

2242
01:19:41,270 --> 01:19:39,199
action perhaps you don't and what might

2243
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:41,280
those other ones look like

2244
01:19:45,910 --> 01:19:43,040
for me again i'm convinced that this is

2245
01:19:47,350 --> 01:19:45,920
a complete rewriting of reality

2246
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:47,360
full stop

2247
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:49,040
that i think

2248
01:19:54,149 --> 01:19:52,159
i'm not uh you know

2249
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:54,159
naive about what it would mean if this

2250
01:19:57,510 --> 01:19:56,159
came out quickly uh in a sudden wait

2251
01:19:58,870 --> 01:19:57,520
would not be good

2252
01:20:00,310 --> 01:19:58,880
so

2253
01:20:01,430 --> 01:20:00,320
and then there's you know when you talk

2254
01:20:04,149 --> 01:20:01,440
about star trek and that kind of

2255
01:20:06,629 --> 01:20:04,159
cooperative kind of you know

2256
01:20:08,709 --> 01:20:06,639
inter-species kind of communication that

2257
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,719
again assumes that we have the basic

2258
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:10,800
construct of reality correct and it's

2259
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:12,000
just some

2260
01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:14,960
some group that's maybe nicer kinder has

2261
01:20:18,629 --> 01:20:16,560
some cooler tech

2262
01:20:20,550 --> 01:20:18,639
that's all we think about but and that i

2263
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:20,560
think is incredibly naive i think it's

2264
01:20:23,830 --> 01:20:22,480
much more complex even the the movie

2265
01:20:25,830 --> 01:20:23,840
arrival that we've talked about several

2266
01:20:26,790 --> 01:20:25,840
times now where they had to wrestle with

2267
01:20:28,629 --> 01:20:26,800
their

2268
01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:28,639
experience of reality and time was

2269
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:30,000
completely different

2270
01:20:34,070 --> 01:20:32,480
i still don't think that even gets to 10

2271
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:34,080
of what what's involved here based on

2272
01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:36,239
what i've researched so

2273
01:20:39,189 --> 01:20:37,679
uh

2274
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:39,199
you know

2275
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:39,770
again

2276
01:20:43,270 --> 01:20:41,040
[Music]

2277
01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:43,280
when you think about just how like you

2278
01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:45,199
said the tendrils go so deep these are

2279
01:20:48,229 --> 01:20:47,199
the roots of these massive pillars of

2280
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:48,239
trees

2281
01:20:53,270 --> 01:20:51,360
that make up our civilization when those

2282
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:53,280
are going to necessarily fall because of

2283
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:54,960
these revelations it really makes you

2284
01:21:00,149 --> 01:20:57,760
think twice about how how this is done

2285
01:21:01,229 --> 01:21:00,159
and how you could do this in anything in

2286
01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:01,239
anything quicker than a

2287
01:21:05,110 --> 01:21:04,080
multi-generational kind of shift

2288
01:21:08,629 --> 01:21:05,120
so

2289
01:21:10,470 --> 01:21:08,639
think that the the others hanging back

2290
01:21:11,669 --> 01:21:10,480
looks like bad news to them that they

2291
01:21:13,669 --> 01:21:11,679
they have a hard time wrapping their

2292
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:13,679
head around how that's a good thing i

2293
01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:15,840
can certainly certainly conceive of why

2294
01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:17,280
that would be

2295
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:20,560
the loving responsible more mature

2296
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:21,760
thing to do

2297
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:23,360
again i want to make the disclaimer i

2298
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:24,480
think there's numerous groups with

2299
01:21:28,390 --> 01:21:26,480
different origins and different agendas

2300
01:21:31,030 --> 01:21:28,400
different developmental levels

2301
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:31,040
but i'm saying at least um as a notion i

2302
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:32,000
can understand why that would be

2303
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:33,520
justifiable

2304
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:35,760
because absolutely going from the

2305
01:21:39,030 --> 01:21:37,440
personal into the more global and

2306
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:39,040
geopolitical

2307
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:39,840
uh

2308
01:21:44,229 --> 01:21:42,800
the the ramifications are immense and

2309
01:21:46,149 --> 01:21:44,239
and far-reaching

2310
01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:46,159
and um

2311
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:48,000
you know as we've said before in the

2312
01:21:50,629 --> 01:21:49,040
show

2313
01:21:52,229 --> 01:21:50,639
there are different developmental levels

2314
01:21:54,550 --> 01:21:52,239
around the world and what this

2315
01:21:56,390 --> 01:21:54,560
revelation means even to like you said

2316
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:56,400
even if disclosure came out tomorrow in

2317
01:22:01,350 --> 01:21:59,360
american culture one country

2318
01:22:03,270 --> 01:22:01,360
at one period of time

2319
01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:03,280
some people will be like that's fake

2320
01:22:06,870 --> 01:22:05,199
news you know like some people will just

2321
01:22:08,070 --> 01:22:06,880
say it's from the government so i don't

2322
01:22:11,990 --> 01:22:08,080
trust it what are they really trying to

2323
01:22:15,350 --> 01:22:13,590
so you have several developmental levels

2324
01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:15,360
even within our one country and then you

2325
01:22:18,070 --> 01:22:17,040
think about different countries around

2326
01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:18,080
the world

2327
01:22:21,510 --> 01:22:19,840
somewhere at the warlord level kind of

2328
01:22:22,390 --> 01:22:21,520
thing you know and

2329
01:22:23,189 --> 01:22:22,400
um

2330
01:22:25,189 --> 01:22:23,199
it's

2331
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,199
incredibly complex to think about how

2332
01:22:29,669 --> 01:22:27,360
this would be handled and i think it's

2333
01:22:32,229 --> 01:22:29,679
naive to assume anything else

2334
01:22:34,470 --> 01:22:32,239
yeah agree and you know as we kind of

2335
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:34,480
turn our attention toward the the end of

2336
01:22:39,110 --> 01:22:36,880
the episode i i i want to come back to

2337
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:39,120
this too that i've talked on a touched

2338
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:41,840
on before and that's that

2339
01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:43,920
you know regardless of what

2340
01:22:53,189 --> 01:22:51,120
additional truths we may learn

2341
01:22:55,990 --> 01:22:53,199
i'm reminded that

2342
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:56,000
we we will still have the task of living

2343
01:22:58,709 --> 01:22:57,600
with ourselves you know we will still

2344
01:23:03,990 --> 01:22:58,719
have

2345
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:04,000
own lives with our with with others who

2346
01:23:09,510 --> 01:23:06,560
are in in our orbit you know and

2347
01:23:12,149 --> 01:23:09,520
the importance of taking care of oneself

2348
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:12,159
generally and i think there's um there's

2349
01:23:17,830 --> 01:23:15,120
a tendency that i see in some circles

2350
01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:17,840
to kind of place

2351
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:21,600
a lot of one's hopes uh and fears and

2352
01:23:25,830 --> 01:23:24,000
and promise you know on disclosure with

2353
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:25,840
a capital d that this will be some kind

2354
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:26,880
of

2355
01:23:33,189 --> 01:23:31,040
be this like there'll be essentially

2356
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:33,199
this salvation that takes place that my

2357
01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:34,880
problems will be solved

2358
01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:36,960
and i would challenge people

2359
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:38,560
who who may come at it from that

2360
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:40,880
perspective to

2361
01:23:45,990 --> 01:23:43,440
to not delay

2362
01:23:48,390 --> 01:23:46,000
the work that you need to do now do not

2363
01:23:50,070 --> 01:23:48,400
put it off to tomorrow

2364
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:50,080
and that's as much a message for me as

2365
01:23:54,870 --> 01:23:52,159
anyone you know that we all have things

2366
01:23:56,790 --> 01:23:54,880
in our daily lives that we have to

2367
01:23:58,470 --> 01:23:56,800
uh work on

2368
01:24:00,790 --> 01:23:58,480
and i can't answer what those are for

2369
01:24:03,750 --> 01:24:00,800
anyone you know we have to come face to

2370
01:24:04,629 --> 01:24:03,760
face with those aspects of ourselves

2371
01:24:09,669 --> 01:24:04,639
that

2372
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:09,679
and put in the work to getting there

2373
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:12,000
because regardless of what happens

2374
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:14,159
you know i still gotta i still gotta fix

2375
01:24:17,669 --> 01:24:15,520
that and i was wondering you know kind

2376
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:17,679
of how you think about that

2377
01:24:22,629 --> 01:24:19,920
obviously we've already touched on the

2378
01:24:27,189 --> 01:24:24,470
the revelation of truths no matter what

2379
01:24:29,350 --> 01:24:27,199
they may be have a destabilizing effect

2380
01:24:32,149 --> 01:24:29,360
and will have a destabilizing effect on

2381
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:32,159
us but what are some things that you you

2382
01:24:35,110 --> 01:24:34,080
know personally would would suggest or

2383
01:24:38,149 --> 01:24:35,120
recommend

2384
01:24:40,470 --> 01:24:38,159
that uh are things we could do right now

2385
01:24:43,270 --> 01:24:40,480
uh no matter how long this process may

2386
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:43,280
take that we would all be better served

2387
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:45,920
to to observe

2388
01:24:49,270 --> 01:24:47,520
well i think you know

2389
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:49,280
one thing that um

2390
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:51,920
i'd encourage people to do and i'm

2391
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:53,440
thankful that we get a chance to be a

2392
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:55,120
part of this and

2393
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:56,639
the work i've done with point of

2394
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:58,960
convergence uh has been part of this too

2395
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:01,520
and it's been very gratifying to see how

2396
01:25:05,590 --> 01:25:03,840
just giving voice to these experiences

2397
01:25:07,830 --> 01:25:05,600
to these events and saying yes they're

2398
01:25:09,430 --> 01:25:07,840
real you know they're this is somehow

2399
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:09,440
part of the big picture of what it means

2400
01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:10,320
to

2401
01:25:15,830 --> 01:25:12,719
experience reality

2402
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:17,830
it's been gratifying to see how

2403
01:25:22,950 --> 01:25:20,080
that feels like people

2404
01:25:24,709 --> 01:25:22,960
are told your experience is real you're

2405
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:24,719
not lying you're not making it up you're

2406
01:25:29,270 --> 01:25:27,360
not unstable

2407
01:25:30,629 --> 01:25:29,280
there really are anomalous events to

2408
01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:30,639
happen

2409
01:25:37,350 --> 01:25:35,440
we've had different ways of framing it

2410
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:37,360
but they continue to happen

2411
01:25:42,629 --> 01:25:39,360
in some cultures and at some periods of

2412
01:25:44,470 --> 01:25:42,639
time you're more rejected and

2413
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:44,480
you know ostracized than others for

2414
01:25:47,189 --> 01:25:46,400
having those experiences just for having

2415
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:47,199
them

2416
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:48,080
but

2417
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:50,080
we're here to support those people we

2418
01:25:53,350 --> 01:25:51,840
really hope that

2419
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:53,360
liminal frames

2420
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:56,800
can be as well as your show with cab and

2421
01:26:00,390 --> 01:25:58,639
with point of convergence we hope these

2422
01:26:02,229 --> 01:26:00,400
can all be places where you feel like

2423
01:26:05,430 --> 01:26:02,239
you're a part of a community

2424
01:26:06,709 --> 01:26:05,440
that accepts you that believes you

2425
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:06,719
that

2426
01:26:10,229 --> 01:26:08,480
is right alongside you trying to make

2427
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:10,239
sense of all this i would say that for

2428
01:26:13,350 --> 01:26:11,840
sure um

2429
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:13,360
if you if you're surrounded by people

2430
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:15,440
who want to uh

2431
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:17,760
make fun of you and belittle you for

2432
01:26:21,830 --> 01:26:20,080
your experience we we encourage you to

2433
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:21,840
reach out to us reach out to other

2434
01:26:25,990 --> 01:26:24,320
people uh and find community that can

2435
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:26,000
support you because that's essential for

2436
01:26:30,709 --> 01:26:28,080
anyone going through this stuff

2437
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:33,510
i would also say that as much as uh i

2438
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:36,800
think the the implications are tectonic

2439
01:26:41,590 --> 01:26:39,360
um to our very fabric of reality i

2440
01:26:43,430 --> 01:26:41,600
personally uh i'm not overwhelmed by

2441
01:26:44,709 --> 01:26:43,440
that i think it's important to point out

2442
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:44,719
i think some people might come away

2443
01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:47,920
going wow you know this sounds like

2444
01:26:51,830 --> 01:26:50,639
uh it's gonna tear apart you know

2445
01:26:53,510 --> 01:26:51,840
everything you know like the

2446
01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:53,520
implications go that deep and that's not

2447
01:26:58,149 --> 01:26:54,719
what i'm saying

2448
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:58,159
um i think that there are ways to

2449
01:27:03,430 --> 01:27:00,719
conceive of this the implications but

2450
01:27:05,750 --> 01:27:03,440
still have a positive outlook um and i

2451
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:05,760
do so i want to encourage people with

2452
01:27:11,590 --> 01:27:09,360
that too that it's it's um

2453
01:27:13,510 --> 01:27:11,600
while i think it's much too simplistic

2454
01:27:14,229 --> 01:27:13,520
to say it's all love and light or it's

2455
01:27:15,430 --> 01:27:14,239
all

2456
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:15,440
demons

2457
01:27:20,550 --> 01:27:18,400
um i think it's a complex picture but we

2458
01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:20,560
still are part of a

2459
01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:21,760
interconnected

2460
01:27:25,910 --> 01:27:23,920
fabric of reality where everything

2461
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:25,920
ultimately is connected even these

2462
01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:26,800
others

2463
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:29,120
in the different sources they come from

2464
01:27:35,030 --> 01:27:31,679
and and i use that as a rubric to sort

2465
01:27:36,550 --> 01:27:35,040
of make sense of what's going on as well

2466
01:27:38,470 --> 01:27:36,560
they have some of their own evolution

2467
01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:38,480
they're going through just like we do so

2468
01:27:43,270 --> 01:27:40,719
to bring it back to what you said yes we

2469
01:27:46,149 --> 01:27:43,280
still need to do our work as individuals

2470
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:46,159
as families as communities

2471
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:48,000
and as a civilization we need to still

2472
01:27:51,830 --> 01:27:49,760
keep moving forward the

2473
01:27:53,669 --> 01:27:51,840
the what's on our table in terms of the

2474
01:27:56,470 --> 01:27:53,679
the issues we're trying to deal with the

2475
01:27:58,229 --> 01:27:56,480
um the growth we're trying to arrive at

2476
01:28:01,669 --> 01:27:58,239
all that's just as important whether

2477
01:28:03,110 --> 01:28:01,679
disclosure happens tomorrow or not

2478
01:28:05,590 --> 01:28:03,120
i couldn't agree more and it's

2479
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:05,600
incredibly affirming and and

2480
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,920
uh and i would echo what you said um i

2481
01:28:12,070 --> 01:28:09,520
think that the

2482
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:12,080
uh i'm hopeful that the ultimate truth

2483
01:28:17,510 --> 01:28:15,520
here will really will feel affirming for

2484
01:28:18,550 --> 01:28:17,520
everyone because it i think at its root

2485
01:28:20,229 --> 01:28:18,560
level

2486
01:28:22,070 --> 01:28:20,239
validates

2487
01:28:24,070 --> 01:28:22,080
lived experience

2488
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:24,080
um and

2489
01:28:27,910 --> 01:28:25,920
there's nothing better than than that

2490
01:28:29,189 --> 01:28:27,920
you know than saying what you have

2491
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:29,199
experienced

2492
01:28:32,709 --> 01:28:31,440
has value has meaning

2493
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:32,719
you matter

2494
01:28:34,870 --> 01:28:33,679
and

2495
01:28:36,629 --> 01:28:34,880
you know i think that that is that we

2496
01:28:37,669 --> 01:28:36,639
can't ignore that that is part of this

2497
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:37,679
desire

2498
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:38,639
for

2499
01:28:44,229 --> 01:28:40,800
this grander truth is

2500
01:28:47,510 --> 01:28:44,239
how does my life

2501
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:47,520
play into this grander story does my

2502
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:49,760
life have significance does it does it

2503
01:28:52,790 --> 01:28:51,120
mean something

2504
01:28:54,790 --> 01:28:52,800
and i would argue and i know you would

2505
01:28:57,510 --> 01:28:54,800
as well that that the answer is an

2506
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:57,520
overwhelming yes

2507
01:29:01,189 --> 01:28:58,960
and

2508
01:29:02,149 --> 01:29:01,199
that whatever this may be

2509
01:29:03,590 --> 01:29:02,159
that

2510
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:03,600
it will

2511
01:29:08,149 --> 01:29:06,880
add greater color and clarity and

2512
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:08,159
beauty

2513
01:29:12,550 --> 01:29:10,560
to to that desire

2514
01:29:14,070 --> 01:29:12,560
uh and that's something that i very much

2515
01:29:14,950 --> 01:29:14,080
look forward to

2516
01:29:16,790 --> 01:29:14,960
um

2517
01:29:21,430 --> 01:29:16,800
we

2518
01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:21,440
talking with each other it means a lot

2519
01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:23,520
to i think each of us to be able to do

2520
01:29:25,990 --> 01:29:24,400
this and

2521
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:26,000
to have this connection but we do it

2522
01:29:30,470 --> 01:29:28,080
also uh to

2523
01:29:31,669 --> 01:29:30,480
connect with all of you and uh we want

2524
01:29:34,310 --> 01:29:31,679
to hear from you

2525
01:29:36,310 --> 01:29:34,320
uh we love hearing from you and uh and

2526
01:29:38,390 --> 01:29:36,320
we will be doing future shows

2527
01:29:41,189 --> 01:29:38,400
around uh things that you're interested

2528
01:29:43,590 --> 01:29:41,199
in so we really encourage uh you the

2529
01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:43,600
listener uh to reach out to us get in

2530
01:29:47,830 --> 01:29:45,520
touch with us

2531
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:47,840
via all the channels where you can find

2532
01:29:52,629 --> 01:29:51,280
us you can find liminal frames

2533
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:52,639
on youtube

2534
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:55,440
at the exo academia youtube channel

2535
01:30:01,030 --> 01:29:58,159
you can find liminal frames on twitter

2536
01:30:02,149 --> 01:30:01,040
you can find myself on twitter at away

2537
01:30:05,750 --> 01:30:02,159
soul

2538
01:30:07,669 --> 01:30:05,760
and exo at exo academian

2539
01:30:10,790 --> 01:30:07,679
dms are open and

2540
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:10,800
we do engage we we very much enjoy you

2541
01:30:14,950 --> 01:30:13,120
know kind of the back and forth and and

2542
01:30:17,030 --> 01:30:14,960
our conversation is made better because

2543
01:30:19,110 --> 01:30:17,040
of your participation and so we look

2544
01:30:20,550 --> 01:30:19,120
forward to the next chat

2545
01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:20,560
and we'll see you

2546
01:30:24,149 --> 01:30:22,320
in a couple weeks right exo so you're on

2547
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:24,159
the uh alternating schedule now with

2548
01:30:27,110 --> 01:30:25,840
point of convergence

2549
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:27,120
uh so yeah absolutely point of

2550
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:29,040
convergence airs every second week and

2551
01:30:33,270 --> 01:30:30,800
the in between weeks liminal frames

2552
01:30:35,590 --> 01:30:33,280
errors so people will

2553
01:30:38,310 --> 01:30:35,600
find that this episode gets um uploaded

2554
01:30:40,470 --> 01:30:38,320
on saturday becomes publicly available

2555
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:40,480
saturday evenings eastern time in the in

2556
01:30:43,350 --> 01:30:42,480
the u.s and that will continue to be the

2557
01:30:45,669 --> 01:30:43,360
case

2558
01:30:48,629 --> 01:30:45,679
that every second saturday evening you

2559
01:30:49,669 --> 01:30:48,639
can find a new episode of liminal frames

2560
01:30:51,750 --> 01:30:49,679
excellent

2561
01:30:53,030 --> 01:30:51,760
well thanks again for listening and now

2562
01:30:54,950 --> 01:30:53,040
we will close

2563
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:54,960
may the quality of our questions shaped

2564
01:31:00,310 --> 01:30:57,920
by a desire for understanding enhance

2565
01:31:02,070 --> 01:31:00,320
our journey of discovery and may our

2566
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:02,080
travels broaden the sphere of our

2567
01:31:05,910 --> 01:31:04,400
consciousness reminding us that new

2568
01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:05,920
discoveries

2569
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:08,080
beget new horizons

2570
01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:09,360
as always

2571
01:31:16,380 --> 01:31:11,760
adventure awaits we'll see you next time

2572
01:31:20,190 --> 01:31:18,510
[Music]

2573
01:31:26,490 --> 01:31:20,200
[Laughter]